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Spiritual revelations & ramblings

#1
Leigha Offline
Totally off the beaten path, but ...

I was reading a thread earlier on SF about abortion, and there seems to be a religious member within this thread, while well-intentioned, going from discussing the topic to preaching about God. That's fine I guess, because the world view lens of a believer can sometimes shape how he/she views political and social justice issues. So, I ''get it.''

But, I've witnessed this quite often - a believer offers mundane phrases such as ''God loves you,'' and ''Praise be to God,'' to non-believers and hopes that it will take. Starts proselytizing instead of discussing. I'm not judging people who do this, don't get me wrong. But, as I read through the thread, this member continues to offer these platitudes, and I'm assuming he/she thinks such one liners are viable rebuttals to atheists/agnostics who are pro-choice and the like. As if an atheist is going to have that ah-ha light bulb moment ''wait, God loves me? Oh I forgot...I'm not going to be pro-choice, any longer!''  Dodgy I also wouldn't say that being pro-choice doesn't automatically mean that someone is betraying his/her faith. Nor is being pro-life strictly a religious viewpoint. Somehow, abortion became this weird chess piece that no one knows what to do with, both sides grapple to use it for their own agendas, but it just doesn't fit on the playing board. 

Having left faith myself, identifying as an atheist for a few years, then recently returning to believing in God (but not tied to religion)...all I can say is, no one can really ''talk you into'' believing. Or not believing. (Some atheists ''preach,'' too.) No one can ''teach'' you into believing, either. It's honestly a personal experience...a transformation or ephiphany of sorts, that one goes through, whether it is towards God or away. It just seems trite as a believer to go into that thread, and tell everyone that God loves them, and that is why they shouldn't be pro-choice. If you don't believe in a god, no one will be able to ''smooth talk'' you into converting. That's just not how it works, if you ask me.

It's always been something that's bugged me about religion...this obligation that many followers feel to get as many converts as they can, lest they be shamed by their peers, or God. In Christianity, Jesus told his disciples to ''go and make disciples of all nations.'' So, many Christians take this as their personal mission in life, but what they sometimes forget, is that passage also underscores ''shaking the dust from one's sandals, should a village reject you.'' 

Know when to shake the dust off.

(Not really sure why I posted this, maybe just a ''dear diary'' moment)
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#2
C C Offline
It's the ideology, canon, descriptive dogma, or formal aspect of a religion wanting to reproduce itself in meme-like fashion, too. It "selfishly" doesn't care anything about the "other stuff" narrowing down from its generality to specific instances (like personal revelations, individual experiences, private insights, etc) also subsumed under the conceptual umbrella of religion. Or to put more accurately, its abstraction as embodied on paper and repeated speech/lectures comes first in order, has priority. Robotically and monotonously expressing itself in the course of carrying out its mission of reproducing.
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#3
Leigha Offline
CC, I wonder why it is often that way. Nearly every organized religion has that going against it.

Yet, religion has a way of poking at you to join the herd that is doing a much better job of witnessing than you. But...but ...can’t I be my own person and still love God?

Recovering Catholic syndrome. Will I ever be free? :/

But then, there's another part of me that finds this person intriguing, and thoughts cross my mind...''maybe I should be doing that, too.'' I mean, I do believe God loves everyone, not just those who believe. Maybe this person is truly heartfelt and it's a not a trite platitude at all ...

Of course, he/she is insinuating that anyone who has an abortion is committing murder. Is that what God would want a believer to think? Then, he/she posts in the next breath...''God loves you, though.''

God loves murderers, is he/she saying? God stops loving us when we have abortions? Maybe I should chime in and ask, but then ...I'll get dragged into a discussion that I don't really want to have.

And often, the talking points all come back to ''well, pro-life people believe in the death penalty, how do you reconcile that with your faith?'' I wonder how they do.

This was the one thing that was easier about identifying as an atheist - I never had to defend myself.
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#4
Seattle Offline
The religion that works best IMO was the religion from my childhood. I wasn't religious but I was in that environment (Methodist) and at least back in the day, it was much more personal and not evangelical.

The evangelical aspect (to anything) is what is annoying, offensive and the only reason for it is to keep the herd together. That's true whether it's religion, cults, "professional development seminars" or whatever.

A friend went to Landmark Forums 3 day seminar and half of it was spent getting them to recruit all of their friends. She says it's not for the profit, it's because they really are trying to change the world. Smile

Now she is offering to buy me dinner, take me to a meeting with no obligation and where I can "make a choice for myself" instead of reading about it or hearing of other's experiences from YouTube. Keep in mind I've expressed no interest or curiosity nor do I need them to fix something for me. Smile

I jokingly told her I was busy on Thursdays with my Tony Robbins seminars and my Scientology meetings but that they were trying to change the world as well and it wasn't about profit and she should come sometime. Smile
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#5
Leigha Offline
lol ^^

That's all I got. Big Grin
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#6
Tongue  Seattle Offline
(Aug 1, 2019 10:11 PM)Leigha Wrote: lol ^^

That's all I got. Big Grin

Tongue
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#7
Leigha Offline
For real, you should go, Seattle. And talk in the third person...like Sancho. Omg, yes. Big Grin
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#8
C C Offline
(Aug 1, 2019 08:54 PM)Leigha Wrote: CC, I wonder why it is often that way. Nearly every organized religion has that going against it.

Yet, religion has a way of poking at you to join the herd that is doing a much better job of witnessing than you. But...but ...can’t I be my own person and still love God?

Recovering Catholic syndrome. Will I ever be free? :/


Non-denominational churches seem to be exploding in number in some areas (or at least, they don't sport traditional labels). Strangely enough, the only Catholic I perhaps ever knew well (in terms of his actually discussing the religion measurably) was an ex-one that had already left and shifted over to the Protestant category of denominations that his wife was loosely classified in. After visiting/sampling various traditional denominations, his family settled on a church that "advertised" no specific formal identity.

Something which via its very nature isn't possible for Catholicism since it's not an umbrella classification for a whole mutable sub-species of varying churches and fellowships. And yes, I might be stepping over bounds by slotting these "faceless" trends as "Protestant", but I assume most of them at least zig-zaggedly splintered off from such denominations in terms of origin.

Nondenominational Christianity - Criticism: Boston University religion scholar Stephen Prothero argues that nondenominationalism hides the fundamental theological and spiritual issues that initially drove the division of Christianity into denominations behind a veneer of "Christian unity". He argues that nondenominationalism encourages a descent of Christianity—and indeed, all religions—into comfortable "general moralism" rather than being a focus for facing the complexities of churchgoers' culture and spirituality. Prothero further argues that it also encourages ignorance of the Scriptures, lowering the overall religious literacy while increasing the potential for inter-religious misunderstandings and conflict.
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#9
Leigha Offline
(Aug 1, 2019 11:36 PM)C C Wrote:
(Aug 1, 2019 08:54 PM)Leigha Wrote: CC, I wonder why it is often that way. Nearly every organized religion has that going against it.

Yet, religion has a way of poking at you to join the herd that is doing a much better job of witnessing than you. But...but ...can’t I be my own person and still love God?

Recovering Catholic syndrome. Will I ever be free? :/


Non-denominational churches seem to be exploding in number in some areas (or at least, they don't sport traditional labels). Strangely enough, the only Catholic I perhaps ever knew well (in terms of his actually discussing the religion measurably) was an ex-one that had already left and shifted over to the Protestant category of denominations that his wife was loosely classified in. After visiting/sampling various traditional denominations, his family settled on a church that "advertised" no specific formal identity.

Something which via its very nature isn't possible for Catholicism since it's not an umbrella classification for a whole mutable sub-species of varying churches and fellowships. And yes, I might be stepping over bounds by slotting these "faceless" trends as "Protestant", but I assume most of them at least zig-zaggedly splintered off from such denominations in terms of origin.  

Nondenominational Christianity - Criticism: Boston University religion scholar Stephen Prothero argues that nondenominationalism hides the fundamental theological and spiritual issues that initially drove the division of Christianity into denominations behind a veneer of "Christian unity". He argues that nondenominationalism encourages a descent of Christianity—and indeed, all religions—into comfortable "general moralism" rather than being a focus for facing the complexities of churchgoers' culture and spirituality. Prothero further argues that it also encourages ignorance of the Scriptures, lowering the overall religious literacy while increasing the potential for inter-religious misunderstandings and conflict.
I see where he’s coming from, but going with that theory, Jesus wasn’t part of a denomination. “His church” is so fragmented, I wonder if he would recognize it, if he came back today. Non denominational churches can still bring people together, which many people crave when it comes to spirituality. 

Speaking of Catholicism, I’ve just taken an interest in the series, The Young Pope. It’s a fictional tale about a 40-something pope who really doesn’t seem to want the job or even believe in God. The series explores the deception that lurks in the Vatican and I can’t help but wonder...is this series poking fun or revealing the truth? 

Ah, why am I watching this? Big Grin
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#10
Syne Offline
“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven." - Matthew 6:1
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