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Any Aussies here?

#1
Syne Offline
If so, how do you feel about the reelection of a conservative PM?
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#3
Syne Offline
(May 20, 2019 02:05 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote:
(May 20, 2019 12:53 AM)Syne Wrote: If so, how do you feel about the reelection of a conservative PM?

There was but...

Yes, we get it, little miss grudgy grudge. Rolleyes
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#4
Ben the Donkey Offline
Haha. I did get a bit angry over that one. I've popped in from time to time to have a read, which is how I stumbled across this - as old as it may be.
I have to admit though that I'm a little confused, remembering Syne's insistence on not caring about what happened in Australia when I was trying to teach him about less than obvious flow on effects throughout what was to become the Commonwealth, that he's asking this question now - or perhaps he had in mind some other Australians more sympathetic to his own ideas.
I even bought my own shovel, this time.

But to answer the question; Conservative and Democratic don't really work here the same way I gather they do over there. Australians have to readjust their thinking a little when visiting American forums, an example of which is the terminology itself - the official name for our primary conservative party is the Liberal party, and our democrats are the Labor party. But even that can be misleading. Both the major Australian parties are considered to be fairly centrist, and often one or the other will cross the demarcation zone and enact a policy which would be deemed almost treasonous in the USA. 
The Liberals (conservatives) are indeed in power right now, and yet our Covid response has been completely different to yours... an example of which is the increases to welfare for those left out of work, and the payments of wage subsidies to industry in order to keep employees they might otherwise have had to lay off. Obviously, those measures would have been something traditionally attributed to a democratic ideology rather than a conservative one; and yet it was done anyway. The why of it would be an entirely separate discussion, but it serves to illustrate that Australian politics isn't as hard line, ideologically, as it seems to be in the US. 

With specific reference to Morrison himself, not a lot was made of his ultra conservative (by our standards) personal beliefs. They came up prior to the election itself due to an attempted smear campaign, but most Australians tend to just go "meh" when informed of a particular candidates religion or what have you (although I'd be interested in the response to a Muslim candidate). The Prime Minister doesn't have the personal political power that the POTUS appears to have, it's more about party policy than individual belief. That can vary from time to time depending on the strength of personality of the PM, of course, but not wildly. I'd imagine that the number of voters influenced by his personal ideology and beliefs would be... not negligible, but relatively insignificant.
Having said all that, I'm going to refute it to some extent. Morrison made the election more of a personal matter between himself and Shorten rather than one of actual policy. Shorten was, in a brief summary, exceedingly boring as a candidate. He came across as, well... stodgy. Morrison cultivated the image of himself as your typical Australian dad, just trying to do the job without upsetting the apple cart too much. It worked. He definitely won the "preferred candidates" polls. But that came on the strength of his personal image of having personal ideologies and beliefs, but not being one to go overboard about it and push his own agenda, if you know what I mean.
A little bit odd that the Labor candidate was perceived as the "establishment" (catholic schools, mother-in-law was the Governor-General (Queen's representative in Australia) who came out in support of a Republic while still in office (Quentin Bryce), but that's Australia for you.

And, given we have it pretty good here (even now), that's all most people really want. There is far less wealth disparity over here compared to America, and the vast majority are quite comfortable. We're a fairly apathetic lot, by and large. As long as you keep things ticking along, very few really care which god you bang your head on the ground to, or what you really think of welfare recipients. 

Up to a point. And, of course, everything changes, and is changing.
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#5
Syne Offline
Wow, a post from well over a year ago (hence not "asking this question now")...and even longer that you seem to have been holding this little grudge. Good to see you've gotten over being butt-hurt for the moment. If only you could read, you'd know the difference between "not caring about what happened" and not caring about the "nuances" of your excuses.

You weren't teaching crap, mate, as you repeatedly failed to cite sources other than out your own ass. And you're not teaching anything now, as most political wonks know the unique difference between liberal and conservative in the US as compared with anywhere else. US conservatives are the true party of classical liberalism, so conservatives being the Liberal party in Oz isn't unexpected. Unlike in the US, all political parties elsewhere tend to favor big government and top-down solutions, so that's the biggest difference between US and Oz conservatives. Hence your welfare and bailouts response to Covid isn't really out of character, even if it did cross some superficial party lines.

Yeah, there is the fact that Aussie PMs are still, at least in principle, beholden to the Queen. Oz, Canada, and New Zealand hardly more than colonies.

Comparing income inequality to the US fails to take into account that the most wealth disparity exists in Democrat-run cities and states. But even the poorest in the US tend to have air conditioning (where it's common), smart phones (to video all the police interactions), etc..

But yeah, obviously many Aussies were fairly apathetic when they were being disarmed.
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#6
Ben the Donkey Offline
Heh.
You think you know the difference, Syne, on Paper... but the reality is that you don't understand it.
If you did, you wouldn't have needed to ask that question in the first place.

Carry on, little paper soldier.
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#7
Syne Offline
Understanding the broad differences between the US and Aussie major political parties has nothing to do with knowing how a member of one party might feel about the election of another. It's rather sad that you can't see that obvious distinction. But then, there is that apathy you seem rather proud of.
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#8
Ben the Donkey Offline
Actually, knowing the character and mindset of Australian people (in general, with a due nod to the changing social landscape) has plenty to do with it, and so does understanding those differences I outlined.

But, yet again, I'm sitting here becoming deflated trying to correct your... misinterpretations (a generous label on my part, perhaps). The only sad thing about this is that I hesitated to reply at all, to begin with, knowing there was every chance that after all these years, you still haven't grown up, you still have self-esteem issues, and it'd come down to a choice as to whether or not I have the patience to deal with it.
But I did reply, and that's on me.

Just out of curiosity though, how old are you?
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#9
Syne Offline
Who said anything about knowing the mindset of Aussies? Hence the OP question. Again, as you seem to have simply not read it the first time, there's a difference between understanding Oz political sides and knowing what Aussies think of any given situation. Now you, as an Aussie, may feel that one is a natural extension of the other, but from the outside, knowing where the political lines are drawn doesn't tell us much about their interaction, or how Aussies view them relative to one another (like how divisive it may be in the culture, how ideological, litmus tests, etc.).

And I'm not surprised you decided to project and deflect in lieu of anything substantial whatsoever.
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#10
Ben the Donkey Offline
I've already answered all that, Syne.
Understanding the political parties relationship with each other, how the political system works, and the political divide in any country, is a key element in understanding how the citizens of that country generally feel about their non-preferred candidate being elected. That was the background. I then described the general apathy that accompanies results like these, due to that divide not being all that wide, with a due nod to changes in that attitude over recent decades.

If you have anything new to add that I don't have to go looking for among the rest of your crap, because that's the chore you make these discussions into, then by all means... add.
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