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5 common traits of Trump supporters

#11
Syne Offline
(Oct 19, 2018 06:24 PM)C C Wrote:
(Oct 18, 2018 10:04 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/...key-traits

"The lightning-fast ascent and political invincibility of Donald Trump has left many experts [on the left] baffled and wondering, “How did we get here?”


Trump was also an anti-establishment icon for some of the younger political iconoclasts actually old enough to vote. But they're probably a small percentage of the mindset varieties, though online they could constitute a significant chunk of so-called "imposter alt-right" trolling. (Who really knows...)

No, there were also plenty of older folks tired of establishment Republicans not standing up to the leftist media and playing ball with the US Chamber of Commerce. Obviously anti-establishment sentiment has been on the rise worldwide, and not only from the young.
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#12
Magical Realist Offline
Read: Fox News viewers mad that reality doesn't match what they're told.
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#13
Syne Offline
(Oct 19, 2018 07:24 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: Read: Fox News viewers mad that reality doesn't match what they're told.

And are you referring to anything specific not matching reality, or is that just vacuous leftist vitriol? O_o
On the flip side, leftists are still butthurt Trump being elected totally blindsided them, because CNN, MSNBC, etc. told them it was a lock for Hillary. Rolleyes

Get over it already.


Any reply to Yaz? O_o
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#14
Magical Realist Offline
Quote:Except that Trump supporters are typically more libertarian than the so-called "liberals", more devoted to individual freedom, opposed to addressing every perceived social problem with a flurry of new laws. All the new laws eventually add up and end up regulating every conceivable aspect of human life. It can very easily become a ticket to totalitarianism.

That sort of rule by mob edict is what our constitution, our election system, and our justice system were designed to protect against. I have a hard time believing a bunch of white bigoted government-hating xenophobes with guns is our last defense against totalitarianism. I still have confidence in our courts to decide what is just and lawful and what isn't.
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#15
Yazata Offline
(Oct 19, 2018 05:52 PM)Syne Wrote: Brexit is immoral? Wanting your own, unhindered national sovereignty is immoral?

I think that it is perceived that way, by today's globalist elites.

Especially in Europe, there's this idea that nations are evil, the source of the two world wars in 21 years that almost destroyed Europe (and European civilization along with it). So a big part of the motivation for the European Union was to eliminate all of the European nations. And eliminate all of their histories, languages and centuries old customs and traditions along with the nations that spawned them.

So European borders had to be erased and populations mixed up as much as possible, so as to destroy any surviving vestige of nationalism.

Britain's decision to opt out and to preserve its own thousand year old history and sovereignty was a direct challenge to the grand European project of cultural suicide and historical erasure.

I think that's one reason why European elites hate Donald Trump so passionately and why they see him as such a threat. He embodies American nationalism and precisely what they oppose at home, everything that they are trying so hard to destroy.

That whole post-national vision seems extraordinarily self-contradictory. As populations are mixed up, as national distinctiveness disappears, diversity is supposed to be a wonderful thing that everyone is supposed to "celebrate", precisely as everyone is being homogenized and made the same. The nations that sheltered and fostered the real and true diversity of different and culturally distinct communities disappear.

So we enter into a brave new world in which none of us has much of anything in common with our neighbors. Community disappears in favor of a cultural atomism of pure individualism. The question that arises then is, if as all the professors tell us, our values and our mores are all "socially constructed", what happens when the "social" disappears?? It looks like a perfect recipe for universal anomie.

And we are seeing the results with rising crime rates, social hostility and division, divisive identity politics, drug abuse and school failure, all signs of growing social pathology.

Somehow it's just assumed that everyone will be on the same page as far as women's and gay rights go, and everyone will share a very similar vision of human rights and how societies should be conducted. But the values that everyone blithely assumes will automatically prevail aren't simply self-evident, they didn't just pop out of nowhere. They are precisely the values that Europe generated over a long and turbulent history of ideas, the product of the Classical Greco-Roman world, of Christendom, of the Renaissance, the Scientific Revolution, the Enlightenment, the Industrial Revolution, and on and on.

If your next door neighbor is a Shariah-observant Muslim or somebody recently arrived from a Honduran village or from sub-Saharan Africa, why should we expect them to share the values and outlook of educated and fully indoctrinated modern Europeans? Why shouldn't the brave new post-national world take their image? Why should females ever be allowed out of their homes except when accompanied by a male family member? Why shouldn't there be a death penalty for homosexuals?

And there's the annoying fact that China is exceedingly unlikely to sign on to the utopian post-national vision. The Chinese are exceedingly nationalistic and they can be expected to retain their Chinese distinctiveness indefinitely into the future.
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#16
stryder Offline
(Oct 19, 2018 05:52 PM)Syne Wrote: Brexit is immoral? Wanting your own, unhindered national sovereignty is immoral? Rolleyes

I can understand you might well have misinterpreted my meaning, or perhaps it was cherry picking but lets make sure you know how I originally meant.

Quote:The same thing (* Nihilism more than Anarchism) has occurred over in the UK, thats why we've had the Brexit a something as politically immoral, just to have something to crash and burn the system.

How I mean is the viewpoint of the Brexit can be manipulated to look politically immoral (by either side), and the main contributors to the discord around it aren't necessarily even extreme believers of either position. they are more likely there just to watch is crash and burn. The case and point is just to take a good hard look at what is reported by the popular press, what people tweet or blog about in the regards to how bitter, resentful and troll like the world tends to seem in this day and age.
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#17
Syne Offline
(Oct 19, 2018 09:10 PM)Magical Realist Wrote:
Quote:Except that Trump supporters are typically more libertarian than the so-called "liberals", more devoted to individual freedom, opposed to addressing every perceived social problem with a flurry of new laws. All the new laws eventually add up and end up regulating every conceivable aspect of human life. It can very easily become a ticket to totalitarianism.

That sort of rule by mob edict is what our constitution, our election system, and our justice system were designed to protect against. I have a hard time believing a bunch of white bigoted government-hating xenophobes with guns is our last defense against totalitarianism. I still have confidence in our courts to decide what is just and lawful and what isn't.

Incrementalism doesn't require the kind of leftist mobs we've been seeing. It only requires good people allowing the slow erosion of rights, like allowing gun restrictions, hate-speech laws, and the takeover of healthcare we've seen in Canada and the UK...pretty much the Democrat party platform. If the mobs can serve to silence/intimidate those good people (or mobilize the weak-minded), it just means their goals can be realized sooner.

Leftists explicitly say they want to change our election system, by doing away with the Electoral College, weaken our justice system, by doing away with things like minimum sentencing, and reinterpret or literally change our Constitution. They are actively trying to remove the safeguards you're touting. Luckily the Supreme Court has had its leftist activists, who were legislating from the bench, nullified.

And you need to learn the difference between government-hating and government-overreach-hating, xenophobia and patriotic sovereignty, and bigotry and people who just don't agree with you.


(Oct 19, 2018 09:33 PM)Yazata Wrote:
(Oct 19, 2018 05:52 PM)Syne Wrote: Brexit is immoral? Wanting your own, unhindered national sovereignty is immoral?

I think that it is perceived that way, by today's globalist elites.

Especially in Europe, there's this idea that nations are evil, the source of the two world wars in 21 years that almost destroyed Europe (and European civilization along with it). So a big part of the motivation for the European Union was to eliminate all of the European nations. And eliminate all of their histories, languages and centuries old customs and traditions along with the nations that spawned them.

So European borders had to be erased and populations mixed up as much as possible, so as to destroy any surviving vestige of nationalism.
So kind of a Nazi Stockholm Syndrome, where they've internalized the motives of Germany to such an extent that they must guard against it in themselves?
Quote:Britain's decision to opt out and to preserve its own thousand year old history and sovereignty was a direct challenge to the grand European project of cultural suicide and historical erasure.

I think that's one reason why European elites hate Donald Trump so passionately and why they see him as such a threat. He embodies American nationalism and precisely what they oppose at home, everything that they are trying so hard to destroy.

That whole post-national vision seems extraordinarily self-contradictory. As populations are mixed up, as national distinctiveness disappears, diversity is supposed to be a wonderful thing that everyone is supposed to "celebrate", precisely as everyone is being homogenized and made the same. The nations that sheltered and fostered the real and true diversity of different and culturally distinct communities disappear.
On top of that, existing concentrations of diversity in big cities tend toward racial segregation and the kind of fear of others that motivates more government control.
Quote:So we enter into a brave new world in which none of us has much of anything in common with our neighbors. Community disappears in favor of a cultural atomism of pure individualism. The question that arises then is, if as all the professors tell us, our values and our mores are all "socially constructed", what happens when the "social" disappears?? It looks like a perfect recipe for universal anomie.

And we are seeing the results with rising crime rates, social hostility and division, divisive identity politics, drug abuse and school failure, all signs of growing social pathology.
Yep, the founding fathers may not have anticipated a complete breakdown of social fabric and mores.
Quote:Somehow it's just assumed that everyone will be on the same page as far as women's and gay rights go, and everyone will share a very similar vision of human rights and how societies should be conducted. But the values that everyone blithely assumes will automatically prevail aren't simply self-evident, they didn't just pop out of nowhere. They are precisely the values that Europe generated over a long and turbulent history of ideas, the product of the Classical Greco-Roman world, of Christendom,  of the Renaissance, the Scientific Revolution, the Enlightenment, the Industrial Revolution, and on and on.
Yeah, the historically ignorant just think this is the natural order of things. They don't know that it has to be created and maintained, usually through shared social aims and voluntary associations.
Quote:If your next door neighbor is a Shariah-observant Muslim or somebody recently arrived from a Honduran village or from sub-Saharan Africa, why should we expect them to share the values and outlook of educated and fully indoctrinated modern Europeans? Why shouldn't the brave new post-national world take their image? Why should females ever be allowed out of their homes except when accompanied by a male family member? Why shouldn't there be a death penalty for homosexuals?

And there's the annoying fact that China is exceedingly unlikely to sign on to the utopian post-national vision. The Chinese are exceedingly nationalistic and they can be expected to retain their Chinese distinctiveness indefinitely into the future.

It's western suicide, where the interminably dissatisfied wish everyone to share in their personal misery.



(Oct 19, 2018 10:24 PM)stryder Wrote:
(Oct 19, 2018 05:52 PM)Syne Wrote: Brexit is immoral? Wanting your own, unhindered national sovereignty is immoral? Rolleyes

I can understand you might well have misinterpreted my meaning, or perhaps it was cherry picking but lets make sure you know how I originally meant.

Quote:The same thing (* Nihilism more than Anarchism) has occurred over in the UK, thats why we've had the Brexit a something as politically immoral, just to have something to crash and burn the system.

How I mean is the viewpoint of the Brexit can be manipulated to look politically immoral (by either side), and the main contributors to the discord around it aren't necessarily even extreme believers of either position.  they are more likely there just to watch is crash and burn.  The case and point is just to take a good hard look at what is reported by the popular press, what people tweet or blog about in the regards to how bitter, resentful and troll like the world tends to seem in this day and age.

Still not positive I understand you're point, but I'll assume the most generous interpretation.

There's definitely an element in just about every country bent on disorder, and even those who promote it for profit. I'm less clear on whether that's a significant contingent in any given country. I haven't heard the demonization of the anti-Brexit folks that I have the pro-Brexit folk, but that could be an artifact of being this side of the pond.
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