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The Things That Can or Can't be Avoided

#11
Syne Offline
(Sep 27, 2018 01:47 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote:
Syne Wrote:Sure, if you think children are inherently an unfavorable consequence.  Dodgy

The cost of reproduction is widely known and it’s not just a consequence of maternal death, deary.
Having a cost doesn't make something, or its consequences, inherently unfavorable. Most things really worth having or doing have a cost.
Quote:"He was angry at God because women were rejecting him...The cure for that is enforced monogamy."—Jordan Peterson

Uh...no, but this might help.
Again, as pointed out to you elsewhere, he's talking about monogamy as a socially inculcated norm (enforced by social pressure alone)...not actual force. Rolleyes
Since you've obviously forgotten (or ignored to maintain your biased straw man):

“Peterson is using well-established anthropological language here: “enforced monogamy” does not mean government-enforced monogamy. “Enforced monogamy” means socially-promoted, culturally-inculcated monogamy, as opposed to genetic monogamy – evolutionarily-dictated monogamy, which does exist in some species (but does not exist in humans). This distinction has been present in anthropological and scientific literature for decades.”
- https://jordanbpeterson.com/media/on-the...-monogamy/

Quote:
Syne Wrote:And you're alive because good men protected you from bad men.

Enforced monogamy may reduce male-male competition but there’s a great deal of evidence showing that female choice is vital. Restricting our choice not only increases our dependence on men but reduces the overall fitness in the population. Sexual selection is an additional filter that insures fitness by reducing the genetic load in the population and protects our species against extinction. 
How, pray tell, does the social norm of monogamy restrict your choice? What, chomping at the bit to cheat on your hubby? O_o
Socially inculcated monogamy just means that many women marry for more than just resources, i.e. fewer whores. They actually try to marry men that they see as a balance between high status and protector/providers. We actually have a long history of females being monopolized by the most powerful men; women had zero choice then, and rape was commonplace.

Females only have a choice where good men allow it. Otherwise the strongest men just take what they want.

Women have always, to varying degrees, played the game of wanting the seed of the high status male who won't marry them and needing the resources/protection of the lower status male who will. It's their reproductive strategy. In a promiscuous society, this means that many beta males get cuckolded, and paternal responsibilities are shirked, especially by higher status males.
Quote:
Zinman Wrote:Evolution seems to be unavoidable. Despite the fact we can genetically modify, there are those like myself who consider that in itself an evolutionary step. Don't think it means we as a species just stop evolving.

And if you want to continue to evolve at a rapid rate, I'd suggest that you let us do what we do best. Let us decide with whom, where, and when the conditions are right.
Who is denying you the ability to decide? The high status men who won't give you the time of day? O_o
Quote:Power envy? Maybe. Penis envy? Oh, hell no, but I suspect that all of this unwanted behavior may stem from womb envy. I mean...that is where you came from and you're always trying to wiggle your way back in.  Big Grin
Typical misandrist tropes. Rolleyes
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#12
Secular Sanity Offline
(Sep 27, 2018 04:00 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Maybe my Internet persona makes me sound like a male chauvinist pig but I'm really not.. I can't turn back the evolutionary clock that puts me in the position where I appreciate good looks but to be perfectly honest I admire what's between the ears just as much. I feel fortunate to feel this way and since I only had girls for  children I hope this gene gets passed on in my grandkids....of course all I have is a granddaughter so I hope that characteristic ends up in a male strand of DNA someday. I'm all for women wanting what males take for granted. I remember telling my girls that the world favored males and that they shouldn't expect to find it easy in the real world. They must of listened, they both have upper management jobs in their respective companies.  Couldn't be prouder. Like you, they knew it was unavoidable and I sincerely hope evolution moves quickly on this one....lol

Yeah, I know. I don’t think that C2 is either. He just likes to stir the pot.

We’re more alike than we different and your looks matter more to us than we care to admit. Haven’t you noticed that each generation is getting prettier and prettier?

Do you know what I think is neat? I suspect that over time, we’ll discover that microchimerism is very common, if not universal. It’s kind of weird to think that part of your DNA may be living on, not only in your daughters, but also your wife.

"And they shall be one flesh." That part might be true.

See you later, Zinman.
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#13
Ben the Donkey Offline
Quote:Haven’t you noticed that each generation is getting prettier and prettier?
Are they?

What's your take on the why?
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#14
Zinjanthropos Offline
(Sep 27, 2018 05:56 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: Do you know what I think is neat? I suspect that over time, we’ll discover that microchimerism is very common, if not universal. It’s kind of weird to think that part of your DNA may be living on, not only in your daughters, but also your wife.

"And they shall be one flesh." That part might be true.

Those early scribes are given credit for knowing a lot of stuff. I figured they must have known all about xenotransplantation. Or was that God who knew everything and just facilitated their quill, hammer & chisel, wedge shaped cuneiform tablet pressing tools, etc? Jeezuz, it just dawned on me, a good chunk of the human world will need to know how to avoid a pig.
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#15
Syne Offline
(Sep 28, 2018 10:51 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Or was that God who knew everything and just facilitated their quill, hammer & chisel, wedge shaped cuneiform tablet pressing tools, etc? Jeezuz, it just dawned on me, a good chunk of the human world will need to know how to avoid a pig.

Judaism and Muslim warnings against trichinosis. I guess there weren't enough people eating bear or dog.
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#16
RainbowUnicorn Offline
(Sep 27, 2018 04:00 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote:
Quote:And if you want to continue to evolve at a rapid rate, I'd suggest that you let us do what we do best. Let us decide with whom, where, and when the conditions are right.

Maybe my Internet persona makes me sound like a male chauvinist pig but I'm really not.. I can't turn back the evolutionary clock that puts me in the position where I appreciate good looks but to be perfectly honest I admire what's between the ears just as much. I feel fortunate to feel this way and since I only had girls for  children I hope this gene gets passed on in my grandkids....of course all I have is a granddaughter so I hope that characteristic ends up in a male strand of DNA someday. I'm all for women wanting what males take for granted. I remember telling my girls that the world favored males and that they shouldn't expect to find it easy in the real world. They must of listened, they both have upper management jobs in their respective companis.  Couldn't be prouder. LIke you, they knew it was unavoidable and I sincerely hope evolution moves quickly on this one....lol

i have a theory that gender of birth is swayed by the physical and psychological stability of the environment for the mother.
the more war torn the environment the more boys are concieved.
possibly around a 60 to 70% margin swing
so 10 births in a war town environment(abusive household or war like setting) 6 or 7 of those 10 will have a far greater probability of being male.(im going to suggest roughly 60 to 80%.

over all i expect that may be a leaning of around 15 to 25% margin over the roughly 50/50 gender conception rate.
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#17
Secular Sanity Offline
(Sep 28, 2018 05:18 PM)Ben the Donkey Wrote:
Quote:Haven’t you noticed that each generation is getting prettier and prettier?
Are they?

What's your take on the why?

I’m not sure. At first, I thought that they might just stand out more or that people are putting more effort into their appearance, e.g., plastic surgery, working out, using more beauty products, etc.

I don’t think that’s the case, though. If I had to guess, I’d say that our choices aren’t as limited as they once were. There’s not as many social constraints and social media provides ample access. We’re mixing and matching with various ethnicities and it does seem like attractive people are winning out.

There is a physical attractiveness stereotype and they are perceived as more trustworthy. Take this latest couple for example.  

"We believe the defendants used their good looks and charm to lower the inhibitions of their potential prey."

They’re generally more successful at mating but obviously men are capable of having more offspring. Attractive men, rich or poor, have more opportunities and more partners.

And you? What do you think?
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#18
RainbowUnicorn Offline
(Sep 29, 2018 04:37 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote:
(Sep 28, 2018 05:18 PM)Ben the Donkey Wrote:
Quote:Haven’t you noticed that each generation is getting prettier and prettier?
Are they?

What's your take on the why?

I’m not sure. At first, I thought that they might just stand out more or that people are putting more effort into their appearance, e.g., plastic surgery, working out, using more beauty products, etc.

I don’t think that’s the case, though. If I had to guess, I’d say that our choices aren’t as limited as they once were. There’s not as many social constraints and social media provides ample access. We’re mixing and matching with various ethnicities and it does seem like attractive people are winning out.

There is a physical attractiveness stereotype and they are perceived as more trustworthy. Take this latest couple for example.  

"We believe the defendants used their good looks and charm to lower the inhibitions of their potential prey."

They’re generally more successful at mating but obviously men are capable of having more offspring. Attractive men, rich or poor, have more opportunities and more partners.

And you? What do you think?

thats a good point.
a chinese man (around late 60s) was commenting on the looks of a 50 yo woman, saying things like "no good" talking about the lack of symmetry of her face.
i am aware of the old world superstitiousness of chinese cultural around such things...
i am biased in that i actually really like this particular women as being morally & intellectually quite outstanding and extremely naturally kind hearted.
i was somewhat repulsed by the comments and felt an instant desire to hurt them in some way that would serve as a life long example.
'hurt' being to mean hurting the pride or ego rather than physically hurting.
personally i think she is quite attractive. i do not have any personal relationship with her and would never consider one though i can recognise all her qualities and see that as being part of who she is.
the fact that this person had equated her value to be a representation of her lack of symmetry to me undermined their own value.
i resisted and changed the subject after making a few points about superstitiousnes around general facial cultural achytypes etc i thought i was extremely well controlled compared to how i felt.

i see many us women who seem to be getting plastic surgery to look a certain way that i find as quite un appealing.
i see other people who some cal good looking who i find no greater affinity to than someone else, while a very ordinary looking(claimed by some person) person to shine with attractivenes like a magnet.

so if talking "attrativeness then hhmmm.
if talking trendy media looks that earn clicks in certain specific cultures then sure i would agree that looks do morph accordingly regardles of me personally finding those looks to be quite undesirable as a superficial thing.
thouugh i am of a type that looks for inner attractiveness first.
so i am disquailified from the norm and most often avoid such discussions.


i do wonder if there is any relationship to obsesion when it comes to looks
like obessing over a designer handbag being all-that

maybe its sexualised obsession as a trending culture.
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#19
Zinjanthropos Offline
Quote: i do wonder if there is any relationship to obsesion when it comes to looks

When I look at tattoos, piercings, face lifts, bad Botox (is there a good one) I personally don't see anything attractive and in fact, i scratch my head wondering why someone very pretty would go to such lengths to have these procedures done. To be trendy maybe? I think people obsess over what's fashionable, avant grade or pissing off their parents or their parent's generation....to be a revolutionary?. I did it when I was young. New trendy ideas but in essence nothing really changes* and I guess there's no way to avoid it.

* the relationship of my words to my current signature was purely coincidental and unintended
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#20
Secular Sanity Offline
I think we’ve all known people that would be considered average, or even unattractive, but their personality makes them more attractive over time.

Speaking of perfect symmetry, I read somewhere recently that people were coming into their plastic surgeons and wanting them to make them look like their filtered selfies.

I’m strictly dickly, but there’s an Australian model that caught my eye the other day. Her name is Ruby Rose and she’s covered in tattoos.


[Image: 31115000728_ba081e658d_m.jpg]
[Image: 31115000728_ba081e658d_m.jpg]



She came out as a lesbian, and she’s absolutely gorgeous, but she suffered physical and emotional abuse due to her sexuality, and even attempted suicide when she was younger. She’s staring in a new movie, "The Meg," with Jason Statham. She reminded me of the new digitally created beauties but she's real.


[Image: balmain-1535650826-300x150.png]
[Image: balmain-1535650826-300x150.png]



Imagine, though, if you thought that social media was a toxic, comparison mirror for young girls, just think what it will be like when they start to compare themselves to perfectly symmetrical digital and artificial intelligent models.
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