Feeling the Future

#1
https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2017/12/07/fe...he-future/

EXCERPT: In After Temporality, I wrote about the phenomenology of the ordinary, healthy experience of time. I wrote this as an outsider, because my own experience of time is not normal. Here, I focus on the phenomenology of time in psychopathological states (prefrontal brain injury, schizophrenia, mania, and depression). What can breakdowns in the experience of time reveal about how the brain constructs time under ordinary circumstances?

In my previous article, I used the word “chronesthesia” to refer to the sense of time: awareness of one’s past and future, coupled with the ability to do “mental time travel,” assembling appropriate memories and projecting the self into imagined possible futures. This is a rather cognitive and bloodless way to describe an alleged sense. But the psychopathological time experience suggests that the experience of normal time is produced and guided by emotion. We feel the future as much as we think it. The feeling of time is instantiated in our bodies out to our skin, and beyond, in the felt bodies of others with whom we synchronize.

In the phenomenological account, there are two modes of being that are relevant here. The first is the absorbed state: proficiently using tools without awareness of the tools as such. Picture driving a car. One is not aware of the motions of one’s hands and feet, or of the internal workings of the automobile. One is simply absorbed in going someplace, and possibly thinking of other things, or even socializing. The second mode is the breakdown state, initiating conscious awareness of oneself and one’s equipment. The brain “wakes up” to some aspect of the environment, because it has failed to accord with previous unconscious predictions. Imagine the gas pedal stops working and the car slows to a halt. Now one pops out of absorbed state into a state of simply using the car, and becomes aware of the car as a thing (a broken thing).

It is the same with time. In the ordinary case, time is invisible. The experience of time is one of absorption. Only when there is a problem do we become conscious of time, and of ourselves in time....

MORE: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2017/12/07/fe...he-future/
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#2
Interesting.
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#3
(Dec 26, 2017 08:00 PM)C C Wrote: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2017/12/07/fe...he-future/

EXCERPT: In After Temporality, I wrote about the phenomenology of the ordinary, healthy experience of time. I wrote this as an outsider, because my own experience of time is not normal. Here, I focus on the phenomenology of time in psychopathological states (prefrontal brain injury, schizophrenia, mania, and depression). What can breakdowns in the experience of time reveal about how the brain constructs time under ordinary circumstances?

In my previous article, I used the word “chronesthesia” to refer to the sense of time: awareness of one’s past and future, coupled with the ability to do “mental time travel,” assembling appropriate memories and projecting the self into imagined possible futures. This is a rather cognitive and bloodless way to describe an alleged sense. But the psychopathological time experience suggests that the experience of normal time is produced and guided by emotion. We feel the future as much as we think it. The feeling of time is instantiated in our bodies out to our skin, and beyond, in the felt bodies of others with whom we synchronize.

In the phenomenological account, there are two modes of being that are relevant here. The first is the absorbed state: proficiently using tools without awareness of the tools as such. Picture driving a car. One is not aware of the motions of one’s hands and feet, or of the internal workings of the automobile. One is simply absorbed in going someplace, and possibly thinking of other things, or even socializing. The second mode is the breakdown state, initiating conscious awareness of oneself and one’s equipment. The brain “wakes up” to some aspect of the environment, because it has failed to accord with previous unconscious predictions. Imagine the gas pedal stops working and the car slows to a halt. Now one pops out of absorbed state into a state of simply using the car, and becomes aware of the car as a thing (a broken thing).

It is the same with time. In the ordinary case, time is invisible. The experience of time is one of absorption. Only when there is a problem do we become conscious of time, and of ourselves in time....

MORE: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2017/12/07/fe...he-future/

Quote:Picture driving a car. One is not aware of the motions of one’s hands and feet, or of the internal workings of the automobile. One is simply absorbed in going someplace, and possibly thinking of other things, or even socializing.

Quote:previous unconscious predictions.

...
am i missing something here ?

you are refering to humans  ?

previous unconscious predictions. = Picture driving a car. One is not aware of the motions of one’s hands and feet, or of the internal workings of the automobile. One is simply absorbed in going someplace, and possibly thinking of other things, or even socializing.


Quote:It is the same with time. In the ordinary case, time is invisible. The experience of time is one of absorption. Only when there is a problem do we become conscious of time, and of ourselves in time....

soo...
perception defines time ?
thus visa versa... the authors point...
perception rules time by its ability to be percieved ... ?
schodenger... ?

... thus
with no measurement of time, how fast does time pass ?
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#4
(Feb 15, 2018 08:12 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote:
Quote:Picture driving a car. One is not aware of the motions of one’s hands and feet, or of the internal workings of the automobile. One is simply absorbed in going someplace, and possibly thinking of other things, or even socializing.

Quote:previous unconscious predictions.
...
am i missing something here ?

you are refering to humans  ?

It's somewhat similar to these kids in the video below who can speed stack on autopilot, without even having to watch and think about what they're doing. The unconscious, computer-like part of the brain is doing the performing. (Though with the complexity of driving a car, the eyes do need to be receiving information constantly.) As long as any ritualistic routine encounters what is expected or predicted by its "zombie autopilot", the neural processes which handle conscious awareness don't have to be alerted to intervene and handle the contingent deviations, problems, and surprises which would throw such a conditioned pattern or sequence of habitual actions off track. The conscious part can be reflecting on something else when not needed.

The incredible sport of cup stacking, explained
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82DNYqurkxo

Quote:Quote: It is the same with time. In the ordinary case, time is invisible. The experience of time is one of absorption. Only when there is a problem do we become conscious of time, and of ourselves in time....

soo...
perception defines time ?
thus visa versa... the authors point...
perception rules time by its ability to be percieved ... ?
schodenger... ?

... thus
with no measurement of time, how fast does time pass ?


Alternative analogy: For a person who experiences "missing time" or loses memory about what happened between midnight and noon, it's as if those absent hours never happened. Because they never perceived / felt / thought about anything during that period (or have no personal evidence in terms of memory to validate that they perceived / felt / thought about anything during that period). Subjectively they jumped directly from midnight to noon in terms of discerning and cognitively identifying change.

The more changes or moments that are discriminated by processes of awareness, the longer a period of time it feels like one has endured. Whereas it would be incoherent to claim that the unconscious activity of a brain "felt like it was a short or long time" in the course of incrementally processing inputted information. Since by definition such activity lacks association with phenomenal affairs like experiences, feelings, etc.

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#5
Go for a drive, 10 kms down the road & I realize I don't remember the actual drive (landmarks, vehicles, conditions, etc.) Happens now & then. I'm blaming my missing time on the proximity of my brain/mind to a fairly large celestial body, the Earth. A time warp affecting my brain's chronological cognizance  Rolleyes , especially elapsed time, never mind the future. In this case I arrived in the future without any knowledge of 10kms worth of the past.
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#6
(Feb 15, 2018 05:03 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Go for a drive, 10 kms down the road & I realize I don't remember the actual drive (landmarks, vehicles, conditions, etc.) Happens now & then. I'm blaming my missing time on the proximity of my brain/mind to a fairly large celestial body, the Earth. A time warp affecting my brain's chronological cognizance  Rolleyes , especially elapsed time, never mind the future. In this case I arrived in the future without any knowledge of 10kms worth of the past.

Big Grin lol
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#7
Just thinking RU. I can't go anywhere in the universe where space time isn't affected by mass even if it's only me, alone in the farthest reaches of space, where the effects of an object with mass are not felt.....excluding my mass of course. My very presence in space will affect time, even if by an infinitely tiny amount.

Just messing around with this so...........I mean all of time is pretty much affected by the presence of mass. Life has evolved to deal with mass affected space time. However wouldn't that mean our experience is never in true time, if there is such a thing? I just realized I don't live in the moment but some stretched version of it. The present with my presence is warped time.
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#8
(Feb 16, 2018 06:01 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Just thinking RU. I can't go anywhere in the universe where space time isn't affected by mass even if it's only me, alone in the farthest reaches of space, where the effects of an object with mass are not felt.....excluding my mass of course. My very presence in space will affect time, even if by an infinitely tiny amount.

Just messing around with this so...........I mean all of time is pretty much affected by the presence of mass. Life has evolved to deal with mass affected space time. However wouldn't that mean our experience is never in true time, if there is such a thing?  I just realized I don't live in the moment but some stretched version of it. The present with my presence is warped time.

Good point.
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#9
(Feb 17, 2018 09:54 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote:
(Feb 16, 2018 06:01 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Just thinking RU. I can't go anywhere in the universe where space time isn't affected by mass even if it's only me, alone in the farthest reaches of space, where the effects of an object with mass are not felt.....excluding my mass of course. My very presence in space will affect time, even if by an infinitely tiny amount.

Just messing around with this so...........I mean all of time is pretty much affected by the presence of mass. Life has evolved to deal with mass affected space time. However wouldn't that mean our experience is never in true time, if there is such a thing?  I just realized I don't live in the moment but some stretched version of it. The present with my presence is warped time.

Good point.

Speaking from a non professional, non science trained casualness. IOW don't take me or my imagination seriously.....

What are the odds that two people or creatures on the Earth share exactly the same body mass once you tally all the particles they consist off? I mean even one atom can make the difference. I know body mass constantly changes as particles are shed or gained but I would think it highly unlikely that we could find two. Not sure where I'm going with this but each of us as observers, is a separate time clock with our own frame of reference, or so I've read. Now if our body mass affects time then wouldn't each of us bend time a little different than the other guy, even if the difference is a decimal point followed by a trillion zeros before the 1,  and since we observe photons that follow the curvatures of space time then no two people are going to observe the same as the next guy. Could our F of R in any way be related in some way to mass and the bending of time? 

Now I'm imagining a universe without any mass particles at all. Just a whole lot of massless motionless space. Would time exist in this scenario? Makes me wonder if time is totally dependent upon the existence of mass? Time only starts when mass gets there? No mass no time? 

Note to Stryder: I appreciate a forum that promotes or at least allows free thinking. I'm a thinker I guess and whether that's good or bad shouldn't matter unless it's obviously demented or been proven false.  We are not all scientists and I'm sure everyone can think of a "what if" or "how come" whenever they read or hear scientific reports.
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