If We're so Special then Why.....

[Syne]

Abiogensis (life from inanimate matter) would likely postulate many short-lived organisms before any suitably fit for survival and reproduction would obtain

I would think that short-lived still means life regardless of lifespan and would have to evolve to survive. 

Somehow inanimate matter became living matter.... Even that doesn't sound right to me. That would imply something really special occurred if it's a one time thing. What if life has nothing to do whatsoever with matter other than to use it to manifest itself? What if inanimate matter was never inanimate? Perhaps another look at matter is required, I don't know. I wonder if abiogenesis still takes place here, on or within the Earth?

Since evolution requires reproduction, life could technically exist without successfully surviving long enough to reproduce. But I agree that abiogenesis seems like a long shot, especially considering that we've never found it to happen in nature nor been able to accomplish it in a lab. So if it did ever happen, you're right that it was likely a one-time occurrence...and necessarily fit enough to survive and reproduce out of the gate.

[Zinjanthropos]

When Syne said: 

 life could technically exist without successfully surviving long enough to reproduce.

It made me think of this....

Absolutely love this video.  Because I like this kind of stuff.

Just how much time does something have to exhibit life properties before being considered alive?

[RainbowUnicorn]

I guess this crosses over to the "realm of god" Vs "the realm of man".

Not advocating God exists here, it may sound like it but there's times when I think I can understand why God was created by us. So if that's what you mean, God's realm is man's realm then I can agree with that

having discussed various things with theologans i recognise there is a discussion about the difference between the will of man and gods will and gods intent for man.... etc
i was wondering if you were referencing this as a compartmentalisation.

[Zinjanthropos]

Speaking of sperm.... have to wonder why, if we're so damn perfect, millions of sperm are required to fertilize an egg when just 1 does the trick. One sperm carrying the genes for another perfect human. Well we know that doesn't happen. Maybe God's still working on it.

having discussed various things with theologans i recognise there is a discussion about the difference between the will of man and gods will and gods intent for man.... etc

Theologians need to explain how perfection works. In one breath we're sinners and the next we're the perfect creation....how does that work?

[Syne]

Speaking of sperm.... have to wonder why, if we're so damn perfect, millions of sperm are required to fertilize an egg when just 1 does the trick. One sperm carrying the genes for another perfect human. Well we know that doesn't happen. Maybe God's still working on it.

May be analogous to how species reproduce in high numbers in inhospitable environments. Like baby sea turtles, where only about 1 in 1,000 survives to adulthood. I'll let you make your own inference about the hospitality of the environment in question.

having discussed various things with theologans i recognise there is a discussion about the difference between the will of man and gods will and gods intent for man.... etc

Theologians need to explain how perfection works. In one breath we're sinners and the next we're the perfect creation....how does that work?

It's spiritual, not bodily. The flesh tends toward sin, but the spirit can overcome.

[Zinjanthropos]

It's spiritual, not bodily. The flesh tends toward sin, but the spirit can overcome.

So a perfect spirit, which I assume everybody has, plays no favorites? You can be the meanest, baddest son of a bitch in the valley and it won't matter a hill of beans what you do as a body. What's the point of creating life then, test the spirit?

I'll let you make your own inference about the hospitality of the environment in question. 

Why then, would a perfect spirit need a hostile environment for the imperfect body's conception?

[Syne]

It's spiritual, not bodily. The flesh tends toward sin, but the spirit can overcome.

So a perfect spirit, which I assume everybody has, plays no favorites? You can be the meanest, baddest son of a bitch in the valley and it won't matter a hill of beans what you do as a body. What's the point of creating life then, test the spirit?

No, the Bible says the spirit was created perfect, but the body tempts it and it has to strive to retain/regain perfection. Yes, it is a test.

I'll let you make your own inference about the hospitality of the environment in question. 

Why then, would a perfect spirit need a hostile environment for the imperfect body's conception?

It's not about the specific organism. It's about the whole causative reality, where challenges will naturally arise...both biological and spiritual.

[Zinjanthropos]

It's spiritual, not bodily. The flesh tends toward sin, but the spirit can overcome.

So a perfect spirit, which I assume everybody has, plays no favorites? You can be the meanest, baddest son of a bitch in the valley and it won't matter a hill of beans what you do as a body. What's the point of creating life then, test the spirit?

No, the Bible says the spirit was created perfect, but the body tempts it and it has to strive to retain/regain perfection. Yes, it is a test.

I'm equating perfection with being special and perhaps I shouldn't.... If humanity is always imperfect then there's really nothing special about us. If the spirit is always perfect then there is also nothing special about it. They're just opposites then, each with their own routine. There's nothing special about meeting expectations. Humans can't get past imperfect and the spirit can't divert away from perfection. Seems convenient enough to be believed.

[Syne]

No, the Bible says the spirit was created perfect, but the body tempts it and it has to strive to retain/regain perfection. Yes, it is a test.

I'm equating perfection with being special and perhaps I shouldn't.... If humanity is always imperfect then there's really nothing special about us. If the spirit is always perfect then there is also nothing special about it. They're just opposites then, each with their own routine. There's nothing special about meeting expectations. Humans can't get past imperfect and the spirit can't divert away from perfection. Seems convenient enough to be believed.

If the spirit has to strive to remain perfect, it certainly CAN divert from perfection. Humans are special in that they can make morally relevant choices, while other creatures only react to stimuli as their nature dictates.

[Zinjanthropos]

No, the Bible says the spirit was created perfect, but the body tempts it and it has to strive to retain/regain perfection. Yes, it is a test.

I'm equating perfection with being special and perhaps I shouldn't.... If humanity is always imperfect then there's really nothing special about us. If the spirit is always perfect then there is also nothing special about it. They're just opposites then, each with their own routine. There's nothing special about meeting expectations. Humans can't get past imperfect and the spirit can't divert away from perfection. Seems convenient enough to be believed.

If the spirit has to strive to remain perfect, it certainly CAN divert from perfection. Humans are special in that they can make morally relevant choices, while other creatures only react to stimuli as their nature dictates.

But if moral decision making doesn't change you from always imperfect then how is that special?