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Revisiting Anslem

#1
Ostronomos Offline
1. Anything is possible.
2. Mind can create anything.
3. Therefore, existence is created by mind. ?

For if anything is possible without intelligence, chaos and randomness must then ensue, which is not the case with design, so intelligence does not merely achieve a pattern within chaos, it creates it. The mind rather than the intelligence is the brain, the operation of free will, determinism and self-determination all combined. If intelligence is the effect of this combination and not the cause, then mind is both a qualitative and quantitative dimension existing as a separate quality from the object world while being greater than the quantitative aspect of the brain.
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#2
Yazata Offline
(Oct 12, 2017 07:22 PM)Ostronomos Wrote: 1. Anything is possible.

I don't think that I believe that. Many things would seem to be physically impossible, namely those things that violate the 'laws of physics'. Some things would even seem to be logically impossible, namely those things that are self-contradictory.

Quote:2. Mind can create anything.

I most emphatically don't agree with that. Certainly not in a literal sense of 'create'.

I don't even think that mind can imagine everything. I'm inclined to think that some hypothetical states of affairs exceed mankind's powers of imagination.

After all, cockroaches can't even conceive of the moons of Saturn, differential equations or DNA. I'm inclined to suspect that there are potential objects of thought that exceed human ability to conceive them as well.

That would suggest that there might be more to reality than humans imagine, or that humans even can imagine.

Quote:3. Therefore, existence is created by mind. ?

No, I definitely reject that idea. I'm a realist about the universe.

http://www.iep.utm.edu/sci-real/

Quote:For if anything is possible without intelligence, chaos and randomness must then ensue, which is not the case with design, so intelligence does not merely achieve a pattern within chaos, it creates it.

You seem to be assuming that order must necessarily originate with mind. I'm not even remotely convinced of that.
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#3
Ostronomos Offline
Yazata Wrote:
(Oct 12, 2017 07:22 PM)Ostronomos Wrote: 1. Anything is possible.

I don't think that I believe that. Many things would seem to be physically impossible, namely those things that violate the 'laws of physics'. Some things would even seem to be logically impossible, namely those things that are self-contradictory.

Only in the physical informational onstraint of the reality you are primarily familiar with.



Quote:I most emphatically don't agree with that. Certainly not in a literal sense of 'create'.

I don't even think that mind can imagine everything. I'm inclined to think that some hypothetical states of affairs exceed mankind's powers of imagination.

What I mean to say is that such a conditioning of mind requires certain permutations and combinations of reality to present themselves to perception.



Quote:After all, cockroaches can't even conceive of the moons of Saturn, differential equations or DNA. I'm inclined to suspect that there are potential objects of thought that exceed human ability to conceive them as well.

That would suggest that there might be more to reality than humans imagine, or that humans even can imagine.

Of course there are limitations to the sum total of one's conceptions. But as I said in the aforementioned response, these require certain permutations and combinations of reality to present themselves to perception.



Quote:No, I definitely reject that idea. I'm a realist about the universe.

http://www.iep.utm.edu/sci-real/

To be a "realist about the the universe" to a high degree one would have to meet certain criteria for qualification and expertise. Langan and I are also realists to a high degree. I study a lot of science.



Quote:You seem to be assuming that order must necessarily originate with mind. I'm not even remotely convinced of that.

How are you so sure that there is no discrepancy between the order within the mind and the order "out there". This brings up the question of objectivity.
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