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Aug 8, 2017 09:58 PM
(This post was last modified: Aug 8, 2017 10:12 PM by Secular Sanity.)
(Aug 8, 2017 09:36 PM)confused2 Wrote: Us blokes are easily broken... Maybe that's because English women's knickers are bigger than ours. We should quit while we're ahead before we offend Mrs. Carol even more, if that's at all possible. 
Aug 9, 2017 11:39 AM
(Aug 8, 2017 09:58 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote:(Aug 8, 2017 09:36 PM)confused2 Wrote: Us blokes are easily broken... ginormous knicker market http://www.fibre2fashion.com/industry-ar...econd-skin Quote: Global lingerie market is estimated to be around $29.23 billion USD in 2012. Considered as a historically resilient sector by industry analysts, the industry has witnessed good growth rate even during recessionary pressures. With a positive growth rate over the coming years, market for intimate wear is expected to reach $30 billion by 2017. 
Aug 9, 2017 03:38 PM
(This post was last modified: Aug 9, 2017 04:02 PM by Carol.)
"Thus is purpose a reality or a philosophical dimension of thought ?"
It is a philosophical dimension that only humans create and because they do create it it can be anything they agree it is from having military might and winning wars, or an economic and social order that results in their nation being ranked the highest on a happiness scale. They can achieve great things when they are agreeable and cooperative and I think civilizations fall when they are not. I notice a lot of concern about freedom and I would love to know everyone's ages because I suspect as youth is a time of risk taking and increased superstition, we also go through a period of thinking we want freedom and don't have it and this socially unjust! Snicker, I got my freedom and it scared the hell out of me and I regret some of the choices I made. I am much happier with a sense of duty and honor and a place in society that is of my choosing. And liberty means our freedom stops where another's begins. It is unfortunate I can not read all the post because some posters intentionally cross that boundary. They do not think it is my freedom and right to establish boundaries regarding how I am treated, and they take pleasure in being abusive. Well, okay if that is the freedom they want, I will use my freedom to avoid them. I never was interested in going to bars where people get drunk and start fighting, but I have a dear friend, who once thought getting drunk and fighting was great fun. Personally, I prefer to be with people who value being in harmony with nature and in harmony with each other. "All we need is love, love. Love is all we need". Back to people who are agreeable and cooperative can achieve great things. I don't know if destroying Rome is a great achievement we should aspire to. My grandmother's generation was more into dignity and respecting others than the generation that came of age during the Great Depression and second world war, and today the ego centrism that seems to be dominating the US appears very destructive. I say that simply to say another reality is possible. "We are modified worms swimming on our backs, descended from an early equivalent of a brine shrimp which, for some long-forgotten reason, turned over........Dawkins" Well, there is no dignity and honor in that. I think that is an unfortunate belief and very sad. What Dawkins said is a matter of attitude, not a fact of life, and that attitude is not the height of human potential. We struggled against the notion that we are worms and are instead as humans, we are capable of dignity and honor, and we rights should have a protected liberty, rather be subjects to the church or kings. I don't think Dawkins attitude is good and something we spread around. I think you all are capable of more than acting like the Three Stooges, but I can understand you thinking it is more fun to act like the Three Stooges. But really is this banter the best you can do? Is this what Strider hoped for? I would expect a science forum to have more dignity and meaning, and bring out what is best in us, not a place for cheap shots at being witty and humorous. The Three Stooges are comedy not science and philosophy. 
Aug 9, 2017 06:14 PM
(This post was last modified: Aug 9, 2017 06:48 PM by Zinjanthropos.)
(Aug 9, 2017 03:38 PM)Carol Wrote: "We are modified worms swimming on our backs, descended from an early equivalent of a brine shrimp which, for some long-forgotten reason, turned over........Dawkins" I don't know if I've ever had someone question my signature before. Cool. There usually isn't a lot of dignity and honor associated with what evidence may be telling us. It isn't always what one wants to hear. Along the same lines, I think it entirely possible that the same goes for an answer to the purpose of (our)life question. It usually turns into a 'what I want to hear vs what is actually heard' type of argument, and not being one to shy away from the obvious I tend to lean away from the subjective thoughts. Doesn't stop me from imagining other scenarios, I can think of many that have passed through my feeble brain over the years. If you say something like there being a collective consciousness existing in the universe that we all eventually contribute to or learn from then show me. Nothing to be ashamed of for thinking it but as in the case of religious belief, you cannot make it fact. Consumption, waste(recycling) and end of life as we know it actually occurs. They're about the only thing we can truly hang our hat on and I have no problem with them being a purpose for LIFE, let alone one species of life. You can include conceiving, birth and thinking also if you wish. There's probably more that we have direct evidence of happening. I think the question could have been rephrased to include subjectivity, but it wasn't.
Aug 10, 2017 04:19 PM
(Aug 9, 2017 06:14 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote:(Aug 9, 2017 03:38 PM)Carol Wrote: "We are modified worms swimming on our backs, descended from an early equivalent of a brine shrimp which, for some long-forgotten reason, turned over........Dawkins" What you said is sad. So many humans have achieved so much, and it seems what you see is the negative not the good? I like how Turchin explains our reality by saying some of us are knaves and some are saints and some are moralist. For sure I am a moralist believing in our human potential. I don't think it is easy to be human, and tend to have a lot of compassion for those making the effort, even those put in prision or who should be put in prison, unless they are bankers.  We have all heard that some people say the glass or water is half empty and others say it is half full. Both are right, but their attitudes are different. I think Neitshze had a terrible attitude and it is sad so many have been favorably impressed by him. Can you consider the idea that we are not right or wrong, but have different attitudes? We all breathe the same air that dinosaurs once breathed and we are all connected. Of course, people separated by mountains and oceans may not be aware of each other but our lives can have an effect on others. Global warming has made us aware of that fact, and it was only one man who shot and killed another man who started the second world war, and that was totally unexpected! Following the first world war, people thought we were really done with war and such would not happen again. People have invented things and written books that changed our reality. I really think we should pay more attention to how our lives affect others, including the lives of those on the other side of the world. I think how we understand reality is as much about attitude as it is about the limited facts we know. I think jumping to conclusions about another's "religious" beliefs and assuming that belief is equal to Christianity is an odd phenomenon that needs investigation. I am reminded of the Protestant Reformation where people every where turned against the church. Starting in the 14th century everything started breaking down, the order of monarchies and the church and social order. I am not sure that what we are experiencing today is any different. However, if you want to attack what I think, you need to attack my understanding of history and philosophy, because I am not a religious person. Being a follower of Dawkins has you holding ideas that no more true than what a Christian may believe. I am also disappointed by the disagreement we having. I thought we had more in common. Not that I thought we agree on facts, but I thought we shared a more positive attitude.
Aug 10, 2017 04:52 PM
You asked for a purpose. If there is a purpose, the most important would be to survive. it is not about the individual, it's the species. In general, living organisms are driven to survive. Perhaps you can ask why or if there is a purpose to all this. Just because 4 billion years of evolution has taken us to this point where one animal is asking questions about their role as a living thing doesn't mean you can discount all that time as if it had no purpose at all. If the purpose of life was not to adapt and survive then you wouldn't be here to ask the question, nor I to answer.
I see no reason to argue a point, in this case purpose, that no one can know for certain. I might as well argue about gods. Now you've gone and said I'm a follower of Dawkins. Actually I've only read two of his books and I won't argue that I was impressed. I follow no one.
Aug 10, 2017 07:59 PM
(This post was last modified: Aug 10, 2017 08:32 PM by Secular Sanity.)
Do you hereby solemnly swear to devote the rest of your lives to the cause of duty and humanity?
Yes, for duty and humanity! Come on guys, you heard the lady. We’ve got a calling. Let’s do this! Don’t worry, Mrs. Carol. We got this.
Aug 10, 2017 08:47 PM
(This post was last modified: Aug 10, 2017 08:52 PM by Zinjanthropos.)
(Aug 10, 2017 07:59 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: Do you hereby solemnly swear to devote the rest of your lives to the cause of duty and humanity? Best part of that skit is the hospital Representative's lines. I always wondered what happens to the docs who graduate last in their class or how hiring them is justified. Funny stuff. When it comes to the subjective it is best not to ask me, the worlds worst philosopher. Betcha didn't know that Richard Dawkins and I share the same birthday, March 26. We used to have Leonard Nimoy too? Eat, shit & die. I think we could squeeze in one more rule. Rule #4: F**k it. I think the purpose needs to include procreate because it's always in need of something to die. I'm going to use it but I'm not asking anyone else to agree. Just do your own thing.  Eat, shit, screw & die.
Aug 10, 2017 09:29 PM
(This post was last modified: Aug 10, 2017 09:30 PM by Secular Sanity.)
(Aug 10, 2017 08:47 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Eat, shit & die. I think we could squeeze in one more rule. Well, I wouldn’t say that procreation was necessarily in the cards. All we needed was a sex drive for that. Syne hasn’t been around for a while. Ten bucks says that he was able to access that site and he’s off and running. Knowledge is power, right? Rule #4: F**k it.
Aug 10, 2017 10:36 PM
(Aug 10, 2017 09:29 PM)ESecular Sanity Wrote:(Aug 10, 2017 08:47 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Eat, shit & die. I think we could squeeze in one more rule. Well ya, but I'm referring to the type of sex that produces more of nature's intended, not the 'win a date with the Zinman ' type, popular so so many years ago. Knowledge is power? Absolutely and relates to the previous paragraph. 
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