Grenfell Tower Fire (London England)

[confused2]

Tea with the Queen - honours (eg knightood). Honours for right family but no morals. Honours for right family but no brains. Honours for no morals but loads of money. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36879241 . In context honours used to give the illusion of credibility to a really dodgy outfit.

[RainbowUnicorn]

Tea with the Queen - honours (eg knightood). Honours for right family but no morals. Honours for right family but no brains. Honours for no morals but loads of money. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36879241 . In context honours used to give the illusion of credibility to a really dodgy outfit.

Tea with the Queen - honours (eg knightood). Honours for right family but no morals. Honours for right family but no brains. Honours for no morals but loads of money.

ah ok.

you are aware the Primeminster controls that list ?
I am unfamilair with the formal process of the queen refusing to bestow an honour on someone.
I gues they do not post a list of those rejected if any do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36879241 . In context honours used to give the illusion of credibility to a really dodgy outfit.

Sir Philip Nigel Ross Green (born 15 March 1952)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Green

When The Guardian newspaper investigated a proposed takeover of Safeway in 2003, Green responded to queries about Arcadia's accounts by insulting and swearing at the journalists.[14]

however, at that time in 2004, he was too busy with Arcadia's attempted takeover of Marks and Spencer.[22]

Political activity
Two weeks prior to the 2010 general election, Green came out in support of David Cameron, George Osborne and the Conservative Party, stating that Cameron and Osborne "understand what needs to be done. They get it."[23]
In August 2010, Green was asked by Cameron, then recently elected as Prime Minister, to carry out a review of UK government spending and procurement.[24] Green's summary report, Efficiency Review by Sir Philip Green,[25] published in October 2010, alleged significant failings in government procurement processes. The government published the review identifying its main finding as "the Government is failing to leverage both its credit rating and its scale".[26] Cameron welcomes the report, saying ""I think it's a good report, it will save a lot of money and it's important we do it."[27

Green became the target of activist group UK Uncut in November 2010 for alleged corporate tax avoidance. The group targeted Green specifically as a government advisor.[40]

Taveta Investments, the company used to acquire Arcadia in 2002, is in the name of Green's wife, Tina Green, a Monaco resident, resulting in a significantly lower tax liability than the £150 million that would be payable if a UK resident owned the company.[41] When Green paid his family £1.2 billion in 2005, it was paid for by a loan taken out by Arcadia, cutting Arcadia's corporation tax as interest charges on the loan were offset against profits.[42]

This appears quite serious if it is true

In 2010, Green was again accused of using sweatshops, this time by Channel 4's Dispatches programme. It was asserted that he was using factories in Britain in which workers were paid less than half the legal minimum wage.[45]

one would assume prosecution or out of court settlements would have beebn made.
would the government prosecute if out of court settlements had been made ?
no because those needed to testify and present private documents would simply refuse.

Green bought BHS for £200m in 2000, but the firm performed poorly so he sold it for just £1 in 2015.
By April 2016 BHS had debts of £1.3bn, including a pensions deficit of £571m.[47]
Despite the deficit of £571m, Green and his family collected £586m in dividends, rental payments and interest on loans during their 15-year ownership of the retailer.
Referring to the conduct of Green, Angela Eagle, the shadow business secretary, said: "In this situation it appears this owner extracted hundreds of millions of pounds from the business and walked away to his favourite tax haven, leaving the Pension Protection Scheme to pick up the bill."[48] Simon Walker, the Director General of the Institute of Directors, described Green's "lamentable failure of behaviour" which was deeply damaging to the reputation of business. He then added he that had moral responsibilities to the pension fund and a proper investigation was needed but not one that took years.[49]

so he has sacked a pension fund.
that will make him a lot of enemys

[RainbowUnicorn]

#Grenfell: where is the CCTV footage?

https://skwawkbox.org/2017/06/28/grenfel...v-footage/

it occured to me that it should be possible to assertain how many people were in the building by reviewing the new CCTV footage over the previous 48 hours.
it appears that no one is talking about why there is no official mention of the CCTV footage being reviewed.
hopefully the police cyber devision have secured it and all computers that had access to them.

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Maybe it is time that The British government built from the ground up fire appliances specifically designed for dealing with high rise fires.
built to the old world Brittish standard of engineering Excellence with modern German & swedeish military vehicle tech they would be the hottest export Britan would have selling to probably all the Middle eastern countrys and most others in the world.

the technology is there. just need some super smart creators like Elon Musk spacex
and https://www.gov.uk/government/organisati...ace-agency

and considering will & harry
some purpose built high tech evacuation helicopters that can land on the roof in heavy smoke & unload fire brigade specialists with air tents to create mobile fire resistant breather tents that people can wear like a zorb to evacuate down the stairs through flames.(obviosely not inflated ut maybe with a head inflated buble with a small air n oxygen bottle in a plastic gell pack high pressure soft pack.
all with locators on as the fire service drone circles over head tracking all the fire brigade and rescue evacuation fire resistant suits that can be air lifted to the roof.

and get that kiwi robotic professor who invented those robotic legs that the US military are trailing currently for wheel chair bound war vets.

you have seen the helicopters who use super high pressure water blaster to clean massive power transmition towers ?
a sea king fitted as a water cannon could secure a room for resus & repelling out the window to the ground if the stairs were on fire.
maen while the smaller helicoper could be water blasting a fire break.
high powered harpoon graple that is fired directly into the concrete floor on a reel. flying fox style fast load while all have safety lines back to the helicopter.

once in they secure repelling lines down to the ground which are protected by the smaller helicopter with the water blaster. foam into the rooms below and water on to the ropes.

[Zinjanthropos]

Imagine if you owned one of those buildings with the suspect cladding. They're pretty much worthless at the moment and insurance companies probably don't want any part of any. Rip them down and sell the property may be best option. Lawyers will do well.

[RainbowUnicorn]

Imagine if you owned one of those buildings with the suspect cladding. They're pretty much worthless at the moment and insurance companies probably don't want any part of any. Rip them down and sell the property may be best option. Lawyers will do well.

ok
do i have insurance ? yes
do i have insurance for construction ? yes
what type of claim can i make ? = who has made the mistake or comitted the crime ?
is the value of the building worth more than what it costs to fix the problem ? (irrelivant because it is going to be a legal claim & the building has not been declared illegal, only the cladding)

i own a multi million dollar bulding worth maybe around 150 million.
it is my primary income.
do i have insurance to pay for income interuption ? = yes i do. it costs a lot but residential tennancy as an income can have lots of unknown sudden issues.
will my business interuption isurance pay now ? only after a stand down period kicks in.
what can i do in the mean time ? i can sue the party responsible in court for lost income.

what should i do right now ?
i shoudl seek the most skilled legal mind in the country and start legal proceeding immediatelyto freeze all the assets of the companys and people accountable.
1st in 1st serve when it comes to pay outs mostly.

as a landlord am i responsible for paying for alternate accomadation while the building is un-inhabitable ? mostly yes but in this case because it is not your fault you should be able to lay claim against those who are responsbile for the actual fault.

do my tenants keep paying rent ?
while negotiation is always best in this case it would be deemed highly likely to be expected to stop paying immediately as a reasonable expectation.

can i force my tenants to pay out the rest of the fixed term tenancy contract for the rest of the year ? no. because the building is legally deemed uninhabitable as not up to fire regulations.

[Zinjanthropos]

Who do you sue if the building material in question was approved by a gov't testing agency? Well the gov't of course. That's where the taxpayer comes in.

The insurance company may well buck up but they will also seek litigation to recuperate losses or at least increase the premiums to an unaffordable rate. Try selling building at market rates....good luck. I still think it may be more economical to rip it down, no one wants to be there anyways, and sell the property. The longer this gets held up in court the building itself may suffer from neglect. So many claimants suing each other. It will be a field day for law firms.

[RainbowUnicorn]

Who do you sue if the building material in question was approved by a gov't testing agency? Well the gov't of course. That's where the taxpayer comes in.

The insurance company may well buck up but they will also seek litigation to recuperate losses or at least increase the premiums to an unaffordable rate. Try selling building at market rates....good luck. I still think it may be more economical to rip it down, no one wants to be there anyways, and sell the property. The longer this gets held up in court the building itself may suffer from neglect. So many claimants suing each other. It will be a field day for law firms.

i was refering to the 20 or soo buildings that have not been turned into a crematorium.

as far as Grenfell is concerned, there is only 1 real option and that is to demolish it.

Claim-wise the government will be self insured for public liability above a certain amount.
If the material has been approved then those who are paid money by the government to make the regulations need to be accountable.

maybe someone should go an remove all the fire extinguishers from the houses of parliment Disable the Sprinkler system and block all but one of the fire exits & wait for them to change the regulations to make only 1 fire exit , No sprinkler system & No Fire Extinguishers for parliment house legal.
im sure all the Politicians would be perfectly happy with that and consider it safe as houses.
should be warmer too with all the doors blocked.

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& have a big sleep over with their entire familys.
should be great fun.
im sure they are all keen.

edited to add i made a mathamatical mistake.
Remove ALL the fire Exits and have only one entrance which is used as Entrance AND exit.

i guess thats only ok for working class.

[RainbowUnicorn]

Cladding fitted to Grenfell Tower during its refurbishment was changed to a cheaper version, documents obtained by the BBC suggest.

Documents show the aluminium cladding was less fire-resistant than a zinc alternative, saving nearly £300,000.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40453054

Earlier planning documents suggest the original plan was for zinc cladding with a fire-retardant core.

i smell a rat here

The savings were part of an ongoing effort by the council and the local tenant management organisation to drive down the cost of the £10m refurbishment.

saving 300k on a 10 million dollar job that totally replaces the entire stock of the core material ...
and all for only 300k ?
3% saving on switching out the entire stock to something of lower fire rating...

[confused2]

3% saving on switching out the entire stock to something of lower fire rating...

So who did (or did not) test the cheaper material?

[RainbowUnicorn]

3% saving on switching out the entire stock to something of lower fire rating...

So who did (or did not) test the cheaper material?

Good question.
i do nt know.
i will see if i can find any info on that.