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The Cosmos’ Fine-Tuning Does Not Imply a Fine-Tuner

#1
C C Offline
http://m.nautil.us/blog/the-cosmos-fine_...fine_tuner

EXCERPT: [...] An analogy here might be apt. Suppose that you’re captured by an alien race whose intentions are unclear, and they make you play Russian roulette. Then suppose that you win, and survive the game. If you are convinced by the fine-tuning argument, then you might be tempted to conclude that your captors wanted you to live.

But imagine that you discover the revolver had five of six chambers loaded, and you just happened to pull then trigger on the one empty chamber. The discovery of this second fact doesn’t confirm the benevolence of your captors. It disconfirms it. The most rational conclusion is that your captors were hostile, but you got lucky.

Similarly, the fine-tuning argument rests on an interesting discovery of physical cosmology that the odds were strongly stacked against life. But if God exists, then the odds didn’t have to be stacked this way. These bad odds could themselves be taken as evidence against the existence of God.

I myself don’t think that the extreme improbability of the existence of life disproves the existence of God. But that’s because I don’t think we understand God well enough to make firm predictions one way or the other about what kind of universe God would create. The problem I’ve raised is only an issue for theists who think that they do understand God to a sufficient degree...
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#2
Magical Realist Offline
Quote:Similarly, the fine-tuning argument rests on an interesting discovery of physical cosmology that the odds were strongly stacked against life. But if God exists, then the odds didn’t have to be stacked this way. These bad odds could themselves be taken as evidence against the existence of God.

That's one of those backwards somersaults of logic that only the most nimble minds can appreciate. Why precisely would God create a universe so hostile to life? Indeed why wasn't life programmed into the basic principles of reality itself, along with mass, energy, velocity and time? Why isn't the universe one vast living thing budding off as this or that single celled organism? Life rather seems to be quite a remarkable exception rather than the rule, in a universe that cares not one iota what is alive and what isn't.
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#3
Syne Offline
Free will. Would there be any motive in a god creating a completely mechanistic windup-toy universe? If not, would there be much motive in creating a universe where the god's existence is at all evidenced to the inhabitants? Does knowing a god definitely exists leave free will intact? Atheists certainly wouldn't be free to exist, without universally being considered insane. So if free will is a worthwhile purpose for existence, any god would both want free inhabitants and little to no evidence of his own existence to unduly impede that freedom.
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#4
Magical Realist Offline
(Jan 27, 2017 05:40 AM)Syne Wrote: Free will. Would there be any motive in a god creating a completely mechanistic windup-toy universe? If not, would there be much motive in creating a universe where the god's existence is at all evidenced to the inhabitants? Does knowing a god definitely exists leave free will intact? Atheists certainly wouldn't be free to exist, without universally being considered insane. So if free will is a worthwhile purpose for existence, any god would both want free inhabitants and little to no evidence of his own existence to unduly impede that freedom.

It doesn't preserve freewill to create a universe that looks like there is no God in it. God doesn't need to pretend to not exist to free our minds. On the contrary, freewill is preserved by a universe that expresses the truth. Knowing God exists would be a truth that would make us free in our choice. It's ridiculous to claim freewill needs to live under this delusion that no God exists. There is no freedom in delusion. And besides, freewill is very rare in our world anyway, where poverty enslaves whole nations, afflictions like autism and ADD and addiction run rampant, and we are forced to serve and conform our minds to a cultural system just to get bread on our table. There's nothing free about it. We adapt to the exigencies that frame our lives and do the best we can. And that doesn't suggest anything like a caring God behind it all.
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#5
RainbowUnicorn Offline
(Jan 26, 2017 02:01 AM)C C Wrote: I myself don’t think that the extreme improbability of the existence of life disproves the existence of God. But that’s because I don’t think we understand God well enough to make firm predictions one way or the other about what kind of universe God would create. The problem I’ve raised is only an issue for theists who think that they do understand God to a sufficient degree...

numbers wise.... the statistical probability is relative to the total number/frequency
obviousely we are unable to measure the frequency
however we are able to calculate the probability.

i tend to think the inverted ego-centric arrogance that lingers from the limbic intellectual survival process is something that tends to disrupt the next stage when it comes to issues like this.

along the lines of th epremis of "god existance" then it would also be duely calculatable to deduce that lack of life in the solar system defines a lack of god because god would make more life.
(ipso facto post premis reverse engineering dicotomy factualisation)

Scientifically speaking life is indeed the probable outcome as has already been defined.
though it be microbrial, it is still life.
now if you wish to factor in "intelligent life"... then maybe we do not actually feature as "intelligent" and so are unable to locate other life forms.

(Jan 27, 2017 05:40 AM)Syne Wrote: Free will. Would there be any motive in a god creating a completely mechanistic windup-toy universe? If not, would there be much motive in creating a universe where the god's existence is at all evidenced to the inhabitants? Does knowing a god definitely exists leave free will intact? Atheists certainly wouldn't be free to exist, without universally being considered insane. So if free will is a worthwhile purpose for existence, any god would both want free inhabitants and little to no evidence of his own existence to unduly impede that freedom.
if fear is used to make you beleive in a god, then what is free will ?
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