Evolution: Is sexual selection sexist?

[Secular Sanity]

Again, I ain't your therapist.

Let's hope you're not anyone's therapist.

[Syne]

Just continue avoiding your issues, deary.

[Secular Sanity]

I moved into our neighbor when I was five.  He was the first person to knock on my door and ask if I could play.  He was a couple of years older than me.  I was shy and worried about my first day at school.  He walked with me on my first day and every day after that.  We built tree houses together.  Played hide and seek.  All the things that kids do.  He was my best friend.  We drifted apart when he entered high school.  I never knew he was gay until after high school.  I was in the city with some friends and ran into him at a restaurant.  He said that he was there for the parade.  It was a gay parade.  That’s when it finally clicked.  He relocated and we didn’t really stay in touch.  I was dating and he was busy doing his thing.  I had lots of male friends, or so I thought.  If I did anything or went anywhere with a heterosexual male they'd immediately assume that we were in a relationship. He’s the only one that never tried to hook up with me.  It’s my only true bromance.  He eventually moved back. He’s in a long term relationship now and is doing great.  I’m happy for him and he’s still one of my best friends.  You’d like him, if you weren’t homophobic.

[Syne]

So still avoiding the questions...while calling people names. Sad really.

[Secular Sanity]

So you have no childhood trauma? He has no childhood trauma? Okaaaayyy.

I thought you already answered it. Your answer was correct. I wasn’t molested or hit. I was loved and well cared for. I don’t believe that he had any childhood traumas either. I’ve always struggled with being a little shy, and I’m an introvert, but I can be the life of the party once I warm up to people. I was popular and had a great childhood. Very adventurous.

Now, your turn. Are you a preacher’s kid? Were you raised as a Christian. Were your parents strict? Were you picked on as a child? Did anyone ever call you a faggot or gay?

Oh, one more...are you really a therapist?

[Syne]

While knowing him since five may very well explain your bond with him (childhood/lifelong friends are common), it doesn't seem to definitively speak to his childhood, and subsequently makes it an irrelevant personal anecdote to the point you purported to be addressing. Or are you, at least tangentially, claiming most women who have gay friends have known them since childhood?

Making your poisoning the well into questions really doesn't help you sound any less defensive.

Reminds me a of Mitch Hedberg joke though:

"I didn't lose a leg in Vietnam to serve hotdogs to teenagers"
"You have both your legs"
"Like I said... I did not lose a leg in Vietnam"

[Secular Sanity]

Male and female characteristics are just that, characteristics. They’re not inheritable traits. Our gender roles impact our behavior. All the stereotypes are the roles, not the people. The arguments in regards to roles are not restricted to gender and include minority groups, as well. Feminine and masculine traits and characteristics among lesbians and gay men vary widely just as they do with heterosexuals.

Everyday experiences and conversations such this support the existing research that indicate that homosexuals are one of the most stereotyped groups throughout the world. It’s common to hear generalizations such as yours. A large number of Americans still feel that homosexuality is either immoral, wrong, and even dangerous. Many of them think that it’s either a learned behavior or a form mental illness.

Among the lay conceptions of the causes were early childhood sexual experiences with the same sex, being dissatisfied with their first sexual encounter with the opposite sex, genetic factors, poor parental relationships, fear of the opposite sex, mental illness, sexual abuse, and childhood trauma. All of which contribute to negative attitudes toward homosexuality. Homosexuality is not caused from trauma or abuse, but it elicits prejudice, verbal abuse, and even physical abuse.

Having contact and positive experiences with homosexuals will reduce the negative attitudes towards homosexuals and positive attitudes will promote more contact. But here you are trying to tell everyone that there’s not only something wrong with homosexuals, but also with the individuals who choose to be friends with homosexuals.

Now that…my friend…is very sad.

Come one, Syne. Please tell me that you're smarter than that.

[Syne]

So no genetic sex differences in behavior? So you don't believe in evolutionary psychology? Sexual selection strategies hold to genetic sex, due to evolutionary psychology, regardless of gender identity or sexual preference. The case of David Reimer, where every attempt to nurture a female gender from birth ultimately failed and ended in suicide. Aggression, like a transgender "woman" threatening to curb stomp someone, etc..

You sound like you've swallowed a science-denying feminist pamphlet.

The evidence overwhelmingly favors environmental and epigenetic causes for homosexuality. Or do you deny the genetic influence upon sex differences only to hypocritically favor them for sexual preference?

Epidemiological studies find a positive association between physical and sexual abuse, neglect, and witnessing violence in childhood and same-sex sexuality in adulthood, but studies directly assessing the association between these diverse types of maltreatment and sexuality cannot disentangle the causal direction because the sequencing of maltreatment and emerging sexuality is difficult to ascertain. Nascent same-sex orientation may increase risk of maltreatment; alternatively, maltreatment may shape sexual orientation. - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3535560/

For analysis of childhood and lifecourse, five sexuality groups were investigated: homosexual, bisexual, and heterosexual divided into those with no same-sex sexual experience, experience only, and experience and relationship. The non-exclusively heterosexual groups were more likely to have experienced adverse events in childhood. - http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007...010-9636-x

There's definitely a positive correlations between the two. Do you have specific evidence that determines causal direction?

And why should people be ashamed, or shame others, for something done to them, against their will? Most people agree that you don't scorn or shame the rape victim. Childhood trauma is no different.
Childhood Trauma Linked to Homosexuality. So What?

It is the same people, who leap to accusations of thinking it immoral, wrong, and even dangerous, that would deny those victims their chance to recover by making their trauma politically taboo...just because they're gay. You seem so much more worried that your political opponents may win than helping a segment of the population with alarmingly greater suicidality, drug-use, depression, etc.. And you claim to be a friend to a gay guy. For shame.

Aside from my typical experiences with people like MR or Tiassa, I do have a positive attitude about homosexuals. It's only your narrow-mindedness that makes you presume anything else. I have a pretty positive attitude towards people like Paglia and Younopolis, and have had many gay friends in the past. Gay guys are some of the funniest people I've ever personally known. None of that blinds me to what the evidence says.

Again, it seems you're being led around by your emotional bias...likely another effect of evolutionary psychology.

[Secular Sanity]

There's definitely a positive correlations between the two. Do you have specific evidence that determines causal direction?

The American Psychiatric Association states: "...no specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse. Sexual abuse does not appear to be more prevalent in children who grow up to identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual, than in children who identify as heterosexual."

Correlation does not imply causation.  How many times have I heard you say that?  

Again, it seems you're being led around by your emotional bias...likely another effect of evolutionary psychology.

Aww, aren't you cute.  

I am a female.  All females are emotional, and therefore non-logical…hmm.

Well then, manly man, why don't you help me out? Can you be a little more explicit? Which emotion is it exactly that’s distorting my reasoning?

List of Emotions

Funny thing is, Darwin’s whole notion of female choice was to account for traits that seemed to be maladaptive from the perspective of natural selection. Maybe he was right.  Boys do have a much higher incidence of behavioral and emotional problems. While you guys are out fighting, drinking, and trying to get laid, we’re home reading and studying.  Females have blossomed and taken full advantage of their educational opportunities.  They’re leaving men in the dust.

But don’t worry your pretty little head about it.  We women are wise, and our mate choices will continue to improve population health, and protect you from extinction.  Unlike you, though, I’m not hung up on gender roles or stereotypes. Stay-at-home fathers can and will be just as nurturing as we were.  

Do you want some advice?  Stay away from the bon-bons.  I hear tell that belly fat raises estrogen levels in men, which can result in low libido.  And you know they say, if you’re not getting it at home, you have the right to roam.

[Syne]

There's definitely a positive correlations between the two. Do you have specific evidence that determines causal direction?

The American Psychiatric Association states: "...no specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse. Sexual abuse does not appear to be more prevalent in children who grow up to identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual, than in children who identify as heterosexual."

Correlation does not imply causation.  How many times have I heard you say that?  

Yep, and the APA votes on whether something should be in the DSM and how it should be categorized. That's not science, that's appeal to consensus. But notice that even so, they limit their claim specifically to "sexual" abuse. I've already given you sources that do correlate general abuse and trauma to homosexuality (without any special focus on sexual abuse). And I asked you for evidence of causal direction, and it seems you have none. Yes, correlation does not imply causation (and yes, I often repeat that basic precept of science), but neither does correlation dismiss a relationship found in evidence...as it seems you're wanting to do. Science-denier?

Again, it seems you're being led around by your emotional bias...likely another effect of evolutionary psychology.

Well then, manly man, why don't you help me out? Can you be a little more explicit? Which emotion is it exactly that’s distorting my reasoning?

It's called choice-supportive bias. It happens when people justify their loyalty to a friend, commitment to a decision, etc. by downplaying any faults of the previously chosen subject. Who knows, maybe you are afraid that you would be less of a friend if you came to believe that gays weren't born that way. You certainly seem to think that questioning the causes of homosexuality inherently implies a whole host of vile feelings toward them. The sad part is that you have so little faith in yourself, that you feel you would take on such vile feelings should your vigilance against such evidence fail you.

Funny thing is, Darwin’s whole notion of female choice was to account for traits that seemed to be maladaptive from the perspective of natural selection. Maybe he was right.  Boys do have a much higher incidence of behavioral and emotional problems. While you guys are out fighting, drinking, and trying to get laid, we’re home reading and studying.  Females have blossomed and taken full advantage of their educational opportunities.  They’re leaving men in the dust.

Institutionalized feminism. It's paved the way to single-parent households, which many studies cite as the single largest predictor of things like criminality, drug-use, etc.. It's demonized males and made natural male behaviors, like a need for more physical activity and competition, unacceptable. If you were raised in a culture that says you're not supposed to be quite and have manors, there's no value or benefit to being a mother, all others deserve preference over you, and any interest you have in sex must be depraved, how do you think you'd feel?

And even with all that, women are about twice as likely to suffer depression and about three times more likely to attempt suicide (although due to choice of method, men succeed more).

Do you want some advice?  Stay away from the bon-bons.  I hear tell that belly fat raises estrogen levels in men, which can result in low libido.  And you know they say, if you’re not getting it at home, you have the right to roam.

LOL! So after you post something claiming women care less about sex, you hypocritically seem to contradict that...so long as you can use it to insult. You're obviously so insecure that you've become an obvious and blatant misandrist.