The Childlike State of Women and Unconditional Chivalry

**Secular Sanity** · (This post was last modified: Dec 19, 2016 11:42 PM by Secular Sanity.)

(Dec 19, 2016 08:07 AM)Carol Wrote: In fact, I like being feminine and think that means being protected, and some call that childlike.

Feminists often complain about traditional gender roles or patriarchy "infantilizing women" or "treating women like children" or being "paternalistic." The idea is that it is insulting or wrong for men or society overall to treat women like children. I wonder though, is it wrong for men to view or treat women like children? Maybe a woman is like a child in many ways in relation to men. Maybe treating women like children is exactly what women need, what women are entitled to, what women are owed by men.

The Childlike State of Women and Unconditional Chivalry

Protection? Do I like it? Hell, yeah! It’s a huge turn on. Why? Because my sexuality is power. I can use it to influence or outright control the behavior of others. It feels good, doesn’t it, Ms. Carol?

Even the Philosopher is Susceptible to Love

Do you like philosophy? Nietzsche is one of my favorites, a philosopher, who I believe got a bad rap as a misogynist.

The whip was a play on the mounted Aristotle. It wasn’t misogynistic or a warning against the dangers that female sexuality posed to men. The lilacs on whip in the picture of Lou Salome, Paul Ree, and Nietzsche represent love. The Jungfrau Mountains can be seen in the background. Nietzsche was thoroughly impressed by Lord Byron’s Manfred, which was inspired by a trip to the Jungfrau Mountains. Jungfrau means maiden/virgin.

"At the end, Manfred dies, defying religious temptations of redemption from sin. Throughout the poem he succeeds in challenging all of the authoritative powers he faces, and chooses death over submitting to the powerful spirits. Manfred directs his final words to the Abbot, remarking, "Old man! 'tis not so difficult to die".

Nietzsche loved his concept of the superman. A mountain man, a lone wolf, who is made into a romantic hero moved by the immensity of the natural world. Nietzsche even wrote a piano piece for it.

"Art is woman without which it is impossible to live. In this supreme jeopardy of the will, art, the sorceress expert in healing, approaches us, only she can turn our fits of nausea into imaginations with which it is possible to live. She is the will to power, the original mother, eternally pregnant."—Nietzsche

Apollo is the god of reason and the rational, while Dionysus is the god of the irrational and chaos, but Apollo was too rational, too factual. He drained the individual of the ability to participate in forms of art and love, inhibiting our ability to live life creatively and to the fullest.

Nietzsche is using "woman" as metaphors for the truth, art, wisdom, and life. Everything in life is a riddle, and everything in life has one solution—that is pregnancy. Art is important because reason is no match for the power of beauty.

In "The other dancing song", Zarathustra is gazing into Life’s eyes. He remembers the whip that the old woman told him to bring, if he is to engage her. It’s a dance, a battle of wills. Wisdom (the whip), tries to bring order to life, but in trying to impose order on life you run the risks of losing touch with reality, and replacing it with your own concoction. Life, therefore, is a little jealous of his wisdom, but nevertheless appreciates his willingness to engage her. She admits that she would run away from him if his wisdom departed. He whispers something in her ear, and of course, she has the last word reminding him that any statement on the actual reflection of reality will always fall short.

Next he says "But then life was dearer to me than all my wisdom ever was."

You will dance and scream to the rhythm of my whip. I did not forget the whip, did I?

Only one person has ever interpreted my dancing song correctly. It was Ben (The Marquis). It's about overcoming nihilism. [1]

There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness.—Nietzsche

Our love—our life—our love of life, is worth protecting.

SENATOR PASTORE: Is there anything connected in the hopes of this accelerator that in any way involves the security of the country?

DR. WILSON: Only from a long-range point of view, of a developing technology. Otherwise, it has to do with: Are we good painters, good sculptors, and great poets? I mean all the things that we really venerate and honor in our country and are patriotic about.

In that sense, this new knowledge has all to do with honor and country but it has nothing to do directly with defending our country except to help make it worth defending.[1]

Carol Wrote:I enjoy a wonderful sense of meaning by talking about this, and I do it to save the world, and so that my great-grandchildren and their children will have liberty and justice.

Don't let him read over your shoulder then. Don't tell him that being feminine means being protected.

"The insatiable monster, war, robs woman of all that is dear and precious to her. It exacts her brothers, lovers, sons, and in return gives her a life of loneliness and despair. Yet the greatest supporter and worshiper of war is woman. She is who instills the love of conquest and power into her children; she is who whispers the glories of war into the ears of her little ones, and who rocks her baby to sleep with the tunes of trumpets and the noise of guns. It is woman, too, who crowns the victor on his return from the battlefield." ~Emma Goldman

We are perfectly capable of defending, not only ourselves, but our country and men, as well. Men do not have a duty to elevate our interests above their own. Men are not our sacrificial lambs. They’re not to be discounted or used for the common good. It is our love and our love of life that makes it worth defending. Men, too, are entitled to both.

Wake up, Carol dear! Why, what a long sleep you've had!

Welcome to scivillage, where the adults play.
From here on out, you’re on your own.
I hope you enjoy your stay.

**Carol** · Dec 20, 2016 05:19 AM

I think you have a prematurely negativistic, frame of mind, built on a whole lot of assumptions, and your post can not be taken as a serious argument made for any good purpose.

Would you feel like a winner if I stopped logging in? Between you and Syne I have had enough of this trash talk that has nothing to do with a serious interest in science or philosophy. I think I will return to the more mature and serious science and philosophy forum from which I came. I am ready for their more restricting control of post because the threads have real intellectual appeal, and what you are Syne are posting does not.

It is really sad when a forum owner goes to all the effort and expense to create a good forum and then gets stuck with people who ruin it.

**Syne** · Dec 20, 2016 05:46 AM

See ya. Good riddance.

I guess that proves your point, SS. We didn't treat Carol enough like a child, deserving of our protection from any upsetting views or criticism.

**Secular Sanity** · (This post was last modified: Dec 20, 2016 04:24 PM by Secular Sanity.)

(Dec 20, 2016 05:46 AM)Syne Wrote: I guess that proves your point, SS. We didn't treat Carol enough like a child, deserving of our protection from any upsetting views or criticism.

No, she's right.

Carol Wrote:If we start doing something because others are goading us into it, what is the cost? It might make us more popular with the group, but if it is something we really don't want to do, we lose respect for ourselves. No thank you, I am not going there.

Sometimes the cost is too high. Not everyone can afford it. It’s scary. Growth and change is painful. She just wants to be happy. No harm, no foul. As Emily Dickinson said, the heart wants what it wants or else it does not care. Well, so does the brain. Don’t push her.

Hey, maybe we should read this, Syne.

What Makes Your Brain Happy and Why You Should Do the Opposite by David Disalvo

"What your brain wants is frequently not what your brain needs."

**RainbowUnicorn** · (This post was last modified: Dec 20, 2016 04:37 PM by RainbowUnicorn.)

Quote:Carol Wrote:
In fact, I like being feminine and think that means being protected, and some call that childlike.

quite fascinated about this comment.
would like to hear some more about it.

going backwards, what people deem childlike varys quite wildly so i am intrigued as to in what way you mean by people percetion.
i find some people carry baggage which means they are stuck inside the thought processes of playing a role of an adult, as opposed to actually being a person.
generally i find sich people to be obsessed with power and control.

protection...
many varying ways of percieving this.
protection in express terms as opposed to implied by way of defined freedom to express(freedom of speach & expresion) as opposed to compliance to not have the ability to choose or be free from coercion.
interestingly this has cross polination to gender identity stereo types.

-interesting thought, has western society just moved into a trend where freedom of expresion is now seen as unacceptable ?