Article  A case study in groupthink: were liberals wrong about the pandemic?

#1
C C Offline
Since China and other countries also engaged in lockdown tyranny and hysteria, much of the import/export in origin problems resulting from COVID would still be afflicting the US, even if homegrown policies had been different. But arguably less so in other socioeconomic areas.
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A case study in groupthink: were liberals wrong about the pandemic?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025...erals-book

INTRO: Were conservatives right to question Covid lockdowns? Were the liberals who defended them less grounded in science than they believed? And did liberal dismissiveness of the other side come at a cost that Americans will continue to pay for many years?

A new book by two political scientists argues yes to all three questions, making the case that the aggressive policies that the US and other countries adopted to fight Covid – including school shutdowns, business closures, mask mandates and social distancing – were in some cases misguided and in many cases deserved more rigorous public debate.

In their peer-reviewed book, In Covid’s Wake: How Our Politics Failed Us, Stephen Macedo and Frances Lee argue that public health authorities, the mainstream media, and progressive elites often pushed pandemic measures without weighing their costs and benefits, and ostracized people who expressed good-faith disagreement.

“Policy learning seemed to be short-circuited during the pandemic,” Lee said. “It became so moralized, like: ‘We’re not interested in looking at how other people are [responding to the pandemic], because only bad people would do it a different way from the way we’re doing’.”

She and Macedo spoke to the Guardian by video call. The Princeton University professors both consider themselves left-leaning, and the book grew out of research Macedo was doing on the ways progressive discourse gets handicapped by a refusal to engage with conservative or outside arguments. “Covid is an amazing case study in groupthink and the effects of partisan bias,” he said.

Many Covid stances presented as public health consensus were not as grounded in empirical evidence as many Americans may have believed, Macedo and Lee argue. At times, scientific and health authorities acted less like neutral experts and more like self-interested actors, engaging in PR efforts to downplay uncertainty, missteps or conflicts of interest.

It’s a controversial argument. Covid-19 killed more than a million Americans, according to US government estimates. The early days of the pandemic left hospitals overwhelmed, morgues overflowing, and scientists scrambling to understand the new disease and how to contain it.

Still, Macedo and Lee say, it is unclear why shutdowns and closures went on so long, particularly in Democratic states. The book argues that in the US the pandemic became more politically polarized over time, after, initially, “only modest policy differences between Republican- and Democratic-leaning states”.

After April 2020, however, red and blue America diverged. Donald Trump contributed to that polarization by downplaying the severity of the virus. Significant policy differences also emerged. Ron DeSantis, the Republican governor of Florida, moved to re-open physical schools quickly, which progressives characterized as irresponsible.

Yet in the end there was “no meaningful difference” in Covid mortality rates between Democratic and Republican states in the pre-vaccine period, according to CDC data cited in the book, despite Republican states’ more lenient policies. Macedo and Lee also favorably compare Sweden, which controversially avoided mass lockdowns but ultimately had a lower mortality rate than many other European countries.

The shutdowns had foreseeable and quantifiable costs, they say, many of which we are still paying. Learning loss and school absenteeism soared. Inflation went through the roof thanks in part to lockdown spending and stimulus payments. Small businesses defaulted; other medical treatments like cancer screenings and mental health care suffered; and rates of loneliness and crime increased. The economic strain on poor and minority Americans was particularly severe... (MORE - details)
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#2
Magical Realist Offline
The liberal reaction to the epidemic may have in fact become overpoliticized, but the conservative attitude was no less so. It quickly became all about how the totalitarian govt was oppressing them and taking away their personal liberties. It was such a small thing to just wear a mask out in public, yet it got overblown into some sinister plot to regulate their personal lives. Fauci was getting death threats for god's sake! Given that attitude, it is no wonder the liberal reaction was one of moral outrage that conservatives could be so anti-science and indifferent to the spread of the virus. Wearing a mask became a comforting sign that you supported the effort to contain a virus that was real and dangerously contagious, that you were on the side of science, and I don't regret that one bit.
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#4
Magical Realist Offline
Yep...it was all a big mass hysterical hoax. Meanwhile:

"Covid-19 killed more than a million Americans, according to US government estimates. The early days of the pandemic left hospitals overwhelmed, morgues overflowing, and scientists scrambling to understand the new disease and how to contain it."
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#5
Syne Offline
It was a clear power grab. If Trump had tried it, the left would have been screeching at the sky. Just blatant hypocrisy.

The difference between the left and right was that the left made exceptions, like BLM protests, that were clearly political... exposing the lie to all their hysteria.

But I have no doubt MR is a legit hypochondriac.
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#6
Magical Realist Offline
Hey maybe Covid really WAS faked..All those paid actors playing dead in body bags. Big government conspiracy telling us what to do. The big bad liberal media stirring up fear and hatred for the antivaxxers..Yep! We were all duped, stupid libs..
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#7
Syne Offline
No one here said that. So who do you imagine you're arguing?
Two things can be true at the same time. Covid could be real and deadly, especially for those with preexisting conditions, but the vaccine could also not prevent catching or spreading it. So the main lie was about what the vaccine... and masks and social distancing... could actually do. Not about the existence or deadliness of Covid.
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#8
Magical Realist Offline
Quote:but the vaccine could also not prevent catching or spreading it. So the main lie was about what the vaccine... and masks and social distancing... could actually do.

Wow...so scientists all over the world were in on the conspiracy too? lol

Here's the facts:

"Clinical trials and real-world data have shown that the vaccines:

Reduce the risk of infection by up to 95%.
Protect against severe illness in over 90% of cases.
Significantly lower the chances of hospitalization and death (by over 80%).

It's important to note that no vaccine is 100% effective, and breakthrough infections can occur. However, vaccinated individuals are much less likely to experience severe symptoms or complications from COVID-19."---AI Google

Bonus question: If the vaccine didn't work why did Covid go away?
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#9
Syne Offline
Yeah, AI is learning from the bulk of propaganda out there. That's how LLMs work.

"5 Things You Should Know about COVID-19 Vaccines
...
COVID-19 vaccines save lives and help keep you out of the hospital. Vaccines are not always effective at preventing infection, but there is extensive data showing that these vaccines prevent severe illness and protect the public's health."
- https://www.cdc.gov/ncird/whats-new/5-th...-know.html

All the actual sources only say that Covid vaccine reduces hospitalizations (you know, severe illness)... not infections.

Many so-called scientists have been proven to misrepresent the data on the vaccine and the mask/social distancing mandates.

"Then in the newly released transcript of a congressional hearing from earlier this year, Dr. Anthony Fauci stated that the 6-foot rule “sort of just appeared” and “wasn’t based on data.”"
- https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-s...ule-matter

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#10
Magical Realist Offline
Quote:All the actual sources only say that Covid vaccine reduces hospitalizations (you know, severe illness)... not infections.

Well now you're just flat out lying like you always do:

"A comprehensive systematic literature search was performed using several databases to identify studies reporting the effectiveness or the efficacy of the vaccines. Only 42 studies met our inclusion criteria, which revealed that the COVID-19 vaccines have successfully reduced the rates of infections, severity, hospitalization, and mortality among the different populations. The full-dose regimen of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is the most effective against infections with the B.1.1.7 and B.1.351 variants. Despite of the high effectiveness of some of the COVID-19 vaccines, more efforts are required to test their effectiveness against the other newly emerging variants."---- https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8862168/

"Between Dec. 18, 2020, and April 2, 2021, at least 23,090 employees at Stanford Health Care received one or two doses of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine. During that period, 189 of vaccinated individuals tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, which causes COVID-19. By contrast, at least 660 of approximately 6,910 - nearly 10% - of unvaccinated workers became infected with the coronavirus.

Sixty percent, or 114, of the breakthrough infections occurred two weeks or less after the first shot. An additional 49 (26%) cases emerged more than two weeks after the first dose and less than two weeks after the second dose. Taken together, 86% of the individuals who tested positive after vaccination did so before immunity fully developed.

"These findings add to the mounting evidence demonstrating that vaccination is extremely effective at preventing COVID-19 infection," said Marisa Holubar, MD, a clinical associate professor of infectious diseases."---- https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2...tions.html

"the COVID vaccine provides strong protection against infection for up to three months and protection against severe disease out to six months."--- https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2024/what-t...or-2024-25

"Vaccination with the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine reduces infections by 90%, while a single dose confers 80% protection, shows a study led by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) that followed essential workers through the worst months of the pandemic.1 The study is one of a small number that employ regular testing to measure vaccines’ impact on infection rates rather than counting cases of symptomatic disease, hospital admission, or death."--- https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n888

So..it looks like the AI Google summary was spot on. Imagine that..
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