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Article  How the war in Gaza mobilized the American Left

#1
C C Offline
This was published a day or so before the Iranian attack on Israel. I doubt that the latter has changed anything with respect to the Leftangelical movement, apart from Biden being relieved that he can now switch to railing about Iran for a while, rather than buckling to criticizing the handling of Gaza, and issuing more comments of outrage aimed at pleasing activists.
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How the war in Gaza mobilized the American Left
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/12/us/po...crats.html

EXCERPTS: Support for Palestinians, a cause once largely championed on college campuses and in communities with ties to the region, has transformed into a defining issue of the Democratic left, galvanizing a broad swath of groups into the most significant protest movement of the Biden era.

Through daily organizing sessions on Zoom and grass-roots campaigning in battleground states, a sprawling new iteration of the pro-Palestinian movement is now propelled both by longtime — and sometimes hard-line — activists and by mainstream pillars of the Democratic coalition.

Organizations that are usually focused on climate, housing or immigration are regularly protesting Israel’s military campaign in Gaza, which followed the Hamas-led Oct. 7 attack and has killed more than 33,000 people, according to local officials.

Labor activists are calling for a cease-fire. Black clergy leaders have appealed directly to the White House. Young Americans are using online tools to mobilize voters and send millions of missives to Congress. And an emerging coalition of advocacy groups is discussing how to press its case at the Democratic National Convention this summer.

“Maybe there was an idea that over time, the movement would lose steam, or it was just like a campus thing or it was like a far-left sort of protest movement,” said Maurice Mitchell, the national director of the Working Families Party, a progressive group that has often been more focused on domestic issues. “The opposite is happening as the humanitarian toll becomes so clear.”

[...] They do not all work together, and their tactics also vary widely: While labor and faith leaders have issued calibrated statements, more strident groups and activists often stage demonstrations that snarl traffic or drown out politicians at events, and some have encouraged supporters to take their own “autonomous actions.”

On campuses especially, some protests have turned ugly or violent. Jewish students and leaders have described being harassed and threatened by people angered by the war in Gaza, in the face of a broader surge in antisemitic incidents, according to law enforcement officials and advocacy groups. They have also tracked a rise in anti-Muslim and anti-Arab acts, including the killing of a Palestinian American 6-year-old boy and the shooting of three students of Palestinian descent in Vermont.

[...] Mr. Biden is under intense pressure to take a tougher stand against Israel, a longtime ally, from powerful parts of a divided party. In a Pew Research Center poll released last month, a slim majority of Democrats said the way Israel was conducting the war was unacceptable, even as the same share said its reasons for fighting were either completely or somewhat valid.

After seven aid workers were killed by Israeli strikes last week, Mr. Biden threatened to condition future support for Israel on how it addresses civilian casualties and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

Other Democrats are going much further in their condemnations.... (MORE - details)
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#2
Syne Offline
Killed more that 33,000 soldiers and civilians, but only according to the Hamas health authority, with no verification. Israel claims it has killed about 13,000 Hamas combatants. Even taking those numbers as accurate, 13,000 Hamas and 20,000 civilian deaths, that's on par for urban warfare in the Middle East. Far from a genocide, which would seek to maximize civilians deaths, rather than just having collateral damage.

But the left is allergic to facts.
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#3
confused2 Offline
A few thoughts for discussion..
From the start Hamas were hoping Iran would support them by attacking Israel - so far this hasn't worked.
Israel's easiest tactic is to starve Hamas into submission - this is probably 'illegal' so to maintain a siege they needed to create a warzone, kill a few aid workers and pen the population up away from local sources of food. So far this is working but Hamas aren't giving up.
Hamas military are perfectly happy to let the population starve - hoping this will reduce support for Israel and increase support for them.
Israel actually wants (now wanted) Iran to attack (as Syne has pointed out) .. so they have the moral high ground when they destroy Iran's nuclear facilities.
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#4
Syne Offline
I never implied Israel wanted Iran to attack. If intelligence indicated Iran was on the verge of nuclear weapons, I'm sure Israel would have attacked, regardless of any other justification.
And Israel shows zero indication of seeking to starve civilians. Israel has let a lot of aide enter Gaza, and it's no fault of theirs that Hamas hijacks the aide. Nor is there any indication they intentionally killed aide workers.

All these unjustified assumptions just sound anti-Semitic.
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#5
confused2 Offline
Every conflict is the same .. there's a winner and a loser at the end.
See(for example) bhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_War
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#6
Zinjanthropos Offline
(Apr 16, 2024 01:43 AM)confused2 Wrote: Every conflict is the same .. there's a winner and a loser at the end.
See(for example)  bhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_War

No timetable, so for the present just keep fighting. I hope for your sake C2 that when the Muslims win it all and take over Britain that they put you on a reservation and pay you indigenous folk war reparations.
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#7
confused2 Offline
Okay.
You have a fence and on the other side of that fence there are people who want to kill you.
They have guns, missiles and all the things needed to kill people.
You have no weapons and no warning if the fence is broken down.
It takes about a minute to break the fence down (using a bulldozer).

The only way I'd even consider going near that fence would be in an armoured car.
If you think anyone who doubts the wisdom of folks living and having pop festivals within a few miles of that fence must be anti-Semitic .. well there you have it.
Maybe you are impressed by their faith in the ability of their god to protect them - to me it just looks like stupidity.
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#8
C C Offline
(Apr 16, 2024 01:42 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: I hope for your sake C2 that when the Muslims win it all and take over Britain that they put you on a reservation and pay you indigenous folk war reparations.

I expect an Islam dominated or "post-Western" Europe to be more like Indonesia, Turkey, or Bosnia rather than the Middle East. They may have the population numbers eventually to direct the outcomes of big city elections and policies, but... Nah, any religious/cultural influences and biases will still be transpiring under secular governments.
_
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#9
confused2 Offline
This is an 'opinion piece' from Israel Hayom of  02-01-2024 so not Gospel Truth

Quote:In order to defeat the state of Gaza, we have no choice but to impose a blockade [siege] on it, as numerous states encountering similar situations have done throughout the course of history.

Tactics -  nothing new there.

Next  this (Non Gospel) article addresses Syne's point that the Israeli's have never denied aid..

Quote:"We should say to the Americans, and it is still not too late: if you continue with your approach and force us to supply flour, water, and fuel, to the state of Gaza – you will then effectively be sentencing the hostages to death. That is the truth,..

More  https://www.israelhayom.com/2024/02/01/w...za-border/

I appreciate others have a 'Go Israel' mentality, some more conflicted than others, I like to try to see how and where we are actually going with this.
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#10
Zinjanthropos Offline
(Apr 16, 2024 09:19 PM)C C Wrote:
(Apr 16, 2024 01:42 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: I hope for your sake C2 that when the Muslims win it all and take over Britain that they put you on a reservation and pay you indigenous folk war reparations.

I expect an Islam dominated or "post-Western" Europe to be more like Indonesia, Turkey, or Bosnia rather than the Middle East. They may have the population numbers eventually to direct the outcomes of big city elections and policies, but... Nah, any religious/cultural influences and biases will still be transpiring under secular governments.
_

The secret is….. declare war on Canada, lose on purpose and we’ll feel bad about winning, then give you anything you want to make amends. You’ll be given privileges no ordinary Canuck has. Send us your downtrodden, criminals and terrorists so we can elevate them to first class citizens and change laws to suit your lifestyle.
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