Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5

Rebuild

#1
Zinjanthropos Offline
Thinking of Theseus Ship paradox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

Google: most of the atoms in our human body are replaced every 5-7 years. 98% of all atoms are replaced after just one year.

Like Theseus’ Ship, are we the same person once our atoms are replaced?

I’m thinking all particles can interchange. However this event appears to be reserved for living things only. Why should it be like that? Is life in danger if its life forms don’t constantly rebuild?
Reply
#2
C C Offline
If a mental and physical clone of a convicted serial killer could be magically made, the justice system would have a dilemma on its hands. Should the new copy be punished, too, even though that body never actually committed the crimes? (It carries the same personality and memories of the one that did the deed, but is potentially free to roam at large in the world.)

In terms of living things, the persistence of configuration or form is apparently what matters to us, rather than the specific components constituting _X_. Except when it doesn't -- identical twins and thought experiments like the above. 

There is also our special emphasis on brain configuration, in contrast to the rest of the human form. If a person suffers total amnesia and acquires new memories and tendencies, then we don't consider them the same "person" -- albeit legally they're treated as the same individual, and in terms of moral duty they're still filling the slot of _X_ family member. Deep mental illness sometimes renders similar results. ("Drew is a totally different person since s/he went mad.")

But even our structure is always changing at the microscopic level, especially the neural "wiring" or relational connections (our psychological template). That seems to be okay in terms of identity as long as it's a slow and incremental process.

In a flip book, the scene on each page is different or separate from the others (a distinct entity), even though they often repeat the same slightly altered configurations (contents) in order to produce the illusion of animated figures. That distinctness is also the case with all versions of time -- even presentism, since the last configuration of the universe is replaced or eradicated by the next universal "now" or present moment/state. They just don't co-exist in presentism, as with the pages of a flip book or with the frames of an old-fashioned motion-picture filmstrip.

So in a sense, it's really just the replication or survival of personal memory in each different "snapshot" that convinces us that each parallel, modified version of ourselves (in a sequence) is literally the same person. That along with similar information storage in the environment, which likewise enforces the idea that the same individual endures.

Horowitz, Arshansky, & Elitzur: It seems that Einstein's view of the life of an individual was as follows. If the difference between past, present, and the future is an illusion, i.e., the four-dimensional spacetime is a 'block Universe' without motion or change, then each individual is a collection of a myriad of selves, distributed along his history, each occurrence persisting on the world line, experiencing indefinitely the particular event of that moment.
Each of these momentary persons, according to our experience, would possess memory of the previous ones, and would therefore believe himself identical with them; yet they would all exist separately, as single pictures in a film. Placing the past, present, and future on the same footing this way, destroys the notion of the unity of the self, rendering it a mere illusion as well.
--On the Two Aspects of Time: The Distinction and Its Implications (1988).


But such a so-called "identity problem" is really no different with respect to the other "simply depicted" spacetime options, and presentism's lack of spacetime.

For instance, the "Growing Block Universe" is retaining (instead of destroying) each new created state of what would otherwise be the presentism process.

And the "Shrinking Block Universe" is doing the reverse of moment by moment destroying a future that already exists.

Whereas the ordinary Block Universe (above) simply eliminates the constant creation/destruction of presentism, and the exclusive constant creation or constant destruction processes of the other two. (All versions of "you" have a privileged or equal existential status, rather than an ephemeral or mitigated one).
Reply
#3
Zinjanthropos Offline
CC…
Quote: If a mental and physical clone of a convicted serial killer could be magically made, the justice system would have a dilemma on its hands. Should the new copy be punished, too, even though that body never actually committed the crimes? (It carries the same personality and memories of the one that did the deed, but is Big Grin potentially free to roam at large in the world.)

Never thought of a clone. I was thinking, although highly unlikely, that the atoms that were replaced in your body could end up in the body of your killer, murderer, enemy, etc. Any number of places including a lover. But I assume that since I haven’t seen a head of lettuce driving a car then the number of atoms transferring en masse to another body are few.

How much information can be stored in an atom? How long can information last in an atom? Sounds crazy but if I have to catch or harvest my lunch and it has information(atoms) it got from me, and If I’m unsuccessful and the lunch I didn’t get survives to reproduce, could that have something to do with evolution? I would think environmental info also. Not something I’ve ever thought of before plus I’m usually wrong. Big Grin
Reply
#4
confused2 Offline
Z. Wrote:How much information can be stored in an atom?
I'd say none - at least as far as biology is concerned. Its the arrangement of the atoms that makes a lettuce a lettuce and a banana a banana. Some chemicals (arrangements of atoms) are (maybe) useful as they are but I think most will be broken down and reformed as (say) eyeball goo.

A scifi writer (?) used cloning as a way to allow people to travel between planets .. the original is copied on (say) Earth and the clone is assembled on (say) Mars. To prevent multiple copies the original would be destroyed .. apparently (in the book) it wasn't a very popular way to travel.
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)