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Zinjanthropos
Mar 4, 2024 03:32 PM
(Mar 4, 2024 01:53 PM)confused2 Wrote: the freeze/thaw process kills about 25% of the 'children' - will pro-lifers tolerate a woman choosing to kill 25% of her children?
Good point but even choosing to get pregnant comes with risks.
From mayoclinic.org :
Quote: Miscarriage is the sudden loss of a pregnancy before the 20th week. About 10% to 20% of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. But the actual number is likely higher. This is because many miscarriages happen early on, before people realize they're pregnant.Sep 8, 2023
Sue God?
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confused2
Mar 4, 2024 03:56 PM
(This post was last modified: Mar 4, 2024 04:17 PM by confused2.)
https://theconversation.com/the-law-of-i...ers-100539
Quote:Rachel Tunstill was convicted of the murder of her newborn baby girl, Mia, in June 2017. Tunstill had given birth alone in the bathroom of her home. After stabbing the baby, Tunstill wrapped the body in a plastic bag and put it in her kitchen bin.
Quote:Rejecting diminished responsibility, the jury then found Tunstill guilty of murder. She received a life sentence, with a minimum term of 20 years imprisonment.
Edit.. This happened in the UK .. in the US (as all seem keen to point out) the worst result (for her) would be that she might be sued .. though as the parent she would be unlikely to sue herself.
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Zinjanthropos
Mar 4, 2024 05:16 PM
(Mar 4, 2024 03:56 PM)confused2 Wrote: https://theconversation.com/the-law-of-i...ers-100539
Quote:Rachel Tunstill was convicted of the murder of her newborn baby girl, Mia, in June 2017. Tunstill had given birth alone in the bathroom of her home. After stabbing the baby, Tunstill wrapped the body in a plastic bag and put it in her kitchen bin.
Quote:Rejecting diminished responsibility, the jury then found Tunstill guilty of murder. She received a life sentence, with a minimum term of 20 years imprisonment.
Edit.. This happened in the UK .. in the US (as all seem keen to point out) the worst result (for her) would be that she might be sued .. though as the parent she would be unlikely to sue herself.
Like all laws, legislators have to draw the line somewhere.
Remembering reading about some woman in USA who gave birth in a McDonalds washroom then tried to flush newborn down the toilet. She got caught but the baby survived with brain damage I think. She went on trial but can’t be sure if anyone sued her for it.
UK getting weirder than NA.
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confused2
Mar 4, 2024 05:29 PM
(This post was last modified: Mar 4, 2024 05:34 PM by confused2.)
You really are serious.. in NA you can kill a child and all you have to worry about is being sued? You don't have murder, wrongful killing and suchlike? Nobody goes to prison for killing a child?
Edit..
How can having an abortion be a problem if you can kill your own children with impunity?
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Zinjanthropos
Mar 4, 2024 06:04 PM
(Mar 4, 2024 05:29 PM)confused2 Wrote: You really are serious.. in NA you can kill a child and all you have to worry about is being sued? You don't have murder, wrongful killing and suchlike? Nobody goes to prison for killing a child?
Edit..
How can having an abortion be a problem if you can kill your own children with impunity?
I think time for me to get out of this thread. Some confusion & going off course. Dropping an embryo in Alabama will probably get you sued I assume.
You mentioned Tunstill murder and I just thought it weirder for UK mothers to stab newborns to death while NA moms flush them down the toilet at McDonalds. Meanwhile this thread is all about embryos.
No expert so I’m out.
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confused2
Mar 4, 2024 06:52 PM
^^^ Sorry .. misunderstanding. The Alabama ruling seems to remove the distinction between fertilised egg and newborn so the penalty (if any) would seem likely to be the same for killing a fertilised egg and a newborn. Syne's claim seems to be that you can only be sued for killing an egg and even then only by the parents. I don't feel any truth is likely to emerge so I'm out too.
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confused2
Mar 4, 2024 11:22 PM
Seems the McDonald's baby flusher (baby didn't die) got 1 year prison sentence + 4 years probation. As she had already been held in prison for 2 years she walked out of the court.
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Syne
Mar 5, 2024 12:19 AM
Some people are apparently allergic to simply reading.
Again:
(Mar 2, 2024 09:15 PM)Syne Wrote: The ruling only allows the couples who provide the embryos to sue if the embryos are destroyed without their consent.
It doesn't open any other potential liabilities than that. So IVF clinics shutting down over this ruling is an open admission that they cannot be responsible for the main products of their industry. Especially when the most it would require is backup power and moderate security measures.
Embryos lost in the consenting process of IVF do not count. The ruling only deemed embryos as children for the purposes of wrongful death civil lawsuits. Not criminal law. As a civil suit, it can only be brought by the harmed party.
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