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Is human intelligence an evolutionary dead end?

#1
C C Offline
https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2022/...-dead-end/

INTRO: The German Philosopher Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche was, by all accounts, a miserable human being. He famously sought meaning through suffering, which he experienced in ample amounts throughout his life. Nietzsche struggled with depression, suicidal ideation, and hallucinations, and when he was 44 — around the height of his philosophical output — he suffered a nervous breakdown. He was committed to a mental hospital and never recovered.

Although Nietzsche himself hated fascism and anti-Semitism, his right-wing sister reframed her brother’s philosophy after his death in 1900 as a rationale for subjugation of people that the fascists saw as weak, contributing to the moral bedrock of the Nazi Party and justification for the Holocaust.

Would Nietzsche have been happier — and would the world overall have been a better place — had the philosopher been born some other species other than human? On its face, it sounds like an absurd question. But in “If Nietzsche Were a Narwhal: What Animal Intelligence Reveals About Human Stupidity,” scientist Justin Gregg convincingly argues that the answer is yes — and not only for Nietzsche, but for all of us.

“Human cognition and animal cognition are not all that different, but where human cognition is more complex, it does not always produce a better outcome,” Gregg writes. Animals are doing just fine without it, and, as the book jacket says, “miraculously, their success arrives without the added baggage of destroying themselves and the planet in the process.”

Gregg — who holds a doctorate from Trinity College Dublin’s School of Psychology, teaches at St. Francis Xavier University, and has conducted research on dolphin social cognition — acknowledges that human history is marked by incredible breakthroughs that hinge on our intelligence. Yet, nonhuman animals do not need human-level intelligence to survive and be evolutionary successful, as Gregg points out, which is why this trait isn’t more prevalent across species.

He builds his often hilarious, sometimes unsettling, case against human superiority across seven chapters. Each one deals with a unique aspect of our psyches — from our capacity to conceive of our own mortality to our ability to communicate about “a limitless array of subject matter” — and provides ample evidence showing that not only are these mental attributes unnecessary for survival, they’re oftentimes more a liability than a gift.

Our species stands out first and foremost, Gregg begins, for our tendency to ask “Why?” “Of all the things that fall under the glittery umbrella of human intelligence, our understanding of cause and effect is the source from which everything else springs,” Gregg writes. “Why” questions arguably spurred innovations such as agriculture (“What causes seeds to germinate?”), fields of study such as astronomy (“Why is that star always in the same place each spring?”) and the advent of religion and philosophy (“Why am I here? And why do I have to die?”).

Asking “why,” however, is not necessary for success on either an individual or evolutionary scale, Gregg writes. Other species presumably flourish without it, and many have arrived at similar life hacks as humans, but without seeking a deep understanding of causation. Chimpanzees, birds, and elephants know how to self-medicate with plants, clay, and bark, for example. They do not need to know why these remedies work, Gregg writes, only that they do... (MORE - details)
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#2
Kornee Offline
The article offers no concrete cure for the ills or supposed ills generated by modern civilizations, but implies we would be better off reverting to primitive subsistence level hunter-gatherer tribal societies.

That fits with ironically globalist propaganda glorifying 'first nations' societies everywhere in the western world. While simultaneously denigrating the advanced cultures that have arguably afforded those 'first nations' folks a vastly improved overall lifestyle, lifespan, and hugely expanded perspective of the world at large. Notwithstanding the admittedly great damage inflicted in the past.

It's ironic because the theme dovetails well with a concerted push to completely centralize power in the hands of a relative few.
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#3
Syne Offline
For those plagued by depression and unhappiness, subsistence living is a viable solution. The mind evolved to deal with problems, but in modern society there are relatively few. So the mind invents its own problems. People generally need more problems, not fewer. But subsistence living is not a solution for entire societies. Where being preoccupied with working for your next meal can exhaust the mental energy necessary to feed things like depression, modern societies are far too big to operate on that basis. For one, it would take serious authoritarian fascism to enforce subsistence on higher achievers. While one set of circumstances may be plenty challenging for some, to maintain subsistence levels, many others would easily overcome and prosper beyond subsistence.

Since you cannot make all people more capable or mentally sound, the only way to achieve equity would be to punish the capable and healthy.
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#4
Ostronomos Offline
(Nov 10, 2022 10:27 PM)C C Wrote: https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2022/...-dead-end/

Would Nietzsche have been happier — and would the world overall have been a better place — had the philosopher been born some other species other than human? On its face, it sounds like an absurd question. But in “If Nietzsche Were a Narwhal: What Animal Intelligence Reveals About Human Stupidity,” scientist Justin Gregg convincingly argues that the answer is yes — and not only for Nietzsche, but for all of us.

Our species stands out first and foremost, Gregg begins, for our tendency to ask “Why?” “Of all the things that fall under the glittery umbrella of human intelligence, our understanding of cause and effect is the source from which everything else springs,” Gregg writes. “Why” questions arguably spurred innovations such as agriculture (“What causes seeds to germinate?”), fields of study such as astronomy (“Why is that star always in the same place each spring?”) and the advent of religion and philosophy (“Why am I here? And why do I have to die?”).

Asking “why,” however, is not necessary for success on either an individual or evolutionary scale, Gregg writes. Other species presumably flourish without it, and many have arrived at similar life hacks as humans, but without seeking a deep understanding of causation. Chimpanzees, birds, and elephants know how to self-medicate with plants, clay, and bark, for example. They do not need to know why these remedies work, Gregg writes, only that they do... (MORE - details)


An argument can be made that intelligence has certain advantages that contribute to the benefit of the creation of reality. Think of the observer dependent universe. Like many Philosophers, I happen to believe that there is a purpose for existence. Neitzche was only a product of his circumstances and he refused to see beyond his self-gratification. From the perspective of the average person, high intelligences are something to admire. This is because it distinguishes the few from the many, thereby offering an advantage. From the perspective of the highly intelligent, they may see life as mind-numbingly boring. But the higher the intelligence the fewer the limits, despite the fact that we are earthbound. I should know, I am able to become the smartest person in human history using Tetrahydrocannabinolic acid.
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#5
Ostronomos Offline
I scored 137 sd 16 on the Mensa practice test and the same on a test that measured a large random sample of the population. Although there is an unavoidable sense of pride in my intelligence, I see that some of you have made an interesting point about the associated disadvantages. It certainly serves me well in social situations. I sought further information on IQ and came across this site: What Is General Intelligence (G Factor)? (verywellmind.com)

I am driven to master certain technical subjects beyond the grasp of most (99% of people). Such as C++ programming. I strike a balance between work and play and make time for both. 


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#6
Kornee Offline
(Nov 11, 2022 05:25 PM)Ostronomos Wrote: An argument can be made that intelligence has certain advantages that contribute to the benefit of the creation of reality. Think of the observer dependent universe. Like many Philosophers, I happen to believe that there is a purpose for existence. Neitzche was only a product of his circumstances and he refused to see beyond his self-gratification. From the perspective of the average person, high intelligences are something to admire. This is because it distinguishes the few from the many, thereby offering an advantage. From the perspective of the highly intelligent, they may see life as mind-numbingly boring. But the higher the intelligence the fewer the limits, despite the fact that we are earthbound. I should know, I am able to become the smartest person in human history using Tetrahydrocannabinolic acid.
Thanks for imo providing a classic example of 'superior IQ' having no necessary correlation to either humility or wisdom. Reinforced by subsequent post.
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#7
Zinjanthropos Offline
(Nov 12, 2022 06:44 PM)Kornee Wrote:
(Nov 11, 2022 05:25 PM)Ostronomos Wrote: An argument can be made that intelligence has certain advantages that contribute to the benefit of the creation of reality. Think of the observer dependent universe. Like many Philosophers, I happen to believe that there is a purpose for existence. Neitzche was only a product of his circumstances and he refused to see beyond his self-gratification. From the perspective of the average person, high intelligences are something to admire. This is because it distinguishes the few from the many, thereby offering an advantage. From the perspective of the highly intelligent, they may see life as mind-numbingly boring. But the higher the intelligence the fewer the limits, despite the fact that we are earthbound. I should know, I am able to become the smartest person in human history using Tetrahydrocannabinolic acid.
Thanks for imo providing a classic example of 'superior IQ' having no necessary correlation to either humility or wisdom. Reinforced by subsequent post.

Ostro is the most intelligent unemployed drug addict with unrequited love interests living in his mom’s basement.

Everybody knows the key to intelligence and finding God is to be wasted. Where ya been Korn? It’s a fact.
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#8
C C Offline
Rachel Nuwer Wrote:Our species stands out first and foremost, Gregg begins, for our tendency to ask “Why?” “Of all the things that fall under the glittery umbrella of human intelligence, our understanding of cause and effect is the source from which everything else springs,” Gregg writes. “Why” questions arguably spurred innovations such as agriculture (“What causes seeds to germinate?”), fields of study such as astronomy (“Why is that star always in the same place each spring?”) and the advent of religion and philosophy (“Why am I here? And why do I have to die?”).

Asking “why,” however, is not necessary for success on either an individual or evolutionary scale, Gregg writes. Other species presumably flourish without it, and many have arrived at similar life hacks as humans, but without seeking a deep understanding of causation. Chimpanzees, birds, and elephants know how to self-medicate with plants, clay, and bark, for example. They do not need to know why these remedies work, Gregg writes, only that they do.

That's contemporary bias or presentism. Earlier or pre-Thales cultures weren't that obsessed with a deep and vetted how/why, either. Just remembering correlations and knowing about the regularities (of appearances), and being able to manipulate and apply whatever items successfully via that, was enough. Along with superficial storytelling or mythological explanations satisfactorily filling in any blanks.

From fire-making Homo erectus onward, the homo genus pretty much stayed within the uppermost limits of a tool-making animal's pedigree. Not that much of a threat to the world even after agriculture and primitive civilization were established (though the arrival of indigenous peoples probably did speed up the extinction of some species in North America and Australia).
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#9
Kornee Offline
(Nov 12, 2022 07:09 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Ostro is the most intelligent unemployed drug addict with unrequited love interests living in his mom’s basement.

Everybody knows the key to intelligence and finding God is to be wasted. Where ya been Korn? It’s a fact.
Ha ha ha ha. Right on Zinja. Think I earlier related the case of a 'colleague' who kept badgering me for my nonexistent info on 'connecting' via DMT iirc. Sad.
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