Does depression exist? Nobody understands why therapy works.

[Syne]

Nobody questions that learning a new skill changes the brain in a functional sense. What is in question and is patently absurd is the claim that normally functioning brains change themselves into depressed brains just by thinking they are depressed. There is simply no evidence for such bs. That would be comparable to claiming one would be able to play piano just by believing one can play a piano.

That's a straw man, moron. Otherwise you could quote me saying anything to that effect.

I said "the person's beliefs and distorted patterns of thought change the brain," but such beliefs don't just apparate from thin air. They're born of experiences, like stress and trauma (as explained in my citations, which as predicted, you didn't read). Someone beats you while telling you you're a useless piece of shit, you internalize that, and your fixed patterns of thought in that vein cause neuroplastic changes in the brain.

It's not rocket science.

Studies have shown that imagining piano practice has the same effect on the brain as actual piano practice. So it just follows that anything fixed pattern of thought would do the same.

The belief is in a wholly different part of the brain than where depression occurs.

Now you're just talking out of your ass.

Frontal lobes play a major role in beliefs. Mental representations of the world are integrated with sub-cortical information by prefrontal cortex. Amygdala and Hippocampus are involved in the process of thinking and thus help in execution of beliefs.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802367/

Numerous studies that focused on gray and white matter have found significant brain region alterations in major depressive disorder patients, such as in the frontal lobe, hippocampus, temporal lobe, thalamus, striatum, and amygdala.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6489983/

You know, aside from the fact that synaptic plasticity can occur throughout the brain.

[confused2]

Sympathy v. empathy.
I will get there. My parents lived through WW2 (1939-1945). There were probably quite a lot of deeply disturbed people around at the time. Their way of dealing with anything 'mental' was "Don't ask, don't tell.". No shrinks in those days. So sympathy means making a cup of tea for someone and letting them talk if they want to - hoping they won't.

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/tea+and+sympathy

tea and sympathy: hospitality and consolation offered to a distressed person.

With someone dying of cancer the consolation part is a bit of a minefield so best just to stick to the tea.

The empath (eg Deanna Troi) might have picked up that in my mother's head she might be drowning. I didn't know at the time that that was even possible.

She said she was depressed.
Not waving but drowning.

[Secular Sanity]

Sympathy v. empathy.
I will get there. My parents lived through WW2 (1939-1945). There were probably quite a lot of deeply disturbed people around at the time. Their way of dealing with anything 'mental' was "Don't ask, don't tell.". No shrinks in those days. So sympathy means making a cup of tea for someone and letting them talk if they want to - hoping they won't.

https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/tea+and+sympathy

tea and sympathy: hospitality and consolation offered to a distressed person.

With someone dying of cancer the consolation part is a bit of a minefield so best just to stick to the tea.

The empath (eg Deanna Troi) might have picked up that in my mother's head she might be drowning. I didn't know at the time that that was even possible.

She said she was depressed.
Not waving but drowning.

"Not Waving but Drowning." Ah, misunderstood and distant. A common theme with depression.

"I am alone, I thought, and they are everybody."—Fyodor Dostoyevsky

I wouldn’t want others to experience my pain, but I wouldn’t want them to take pleasure in it either.

Epicaricacy might be derived when we feel that someone finally got what they deserved, but sometimes people might offer their condolences or assistance simply because they are more interested in their own cleverness.

Nothing to do with you, of course, but just something that I’ve noticed.

Drowning victims can selfishly pull you down with them though.

I have a beautiful collection of teacups. Tea in the presence of others is soothing—without the taxes, of course. But a dash of care without condemnation might sweeten it up.

Good stuff! Thanks, C2!

BTW, any regrets?

[Magical Realist]

The belief is in a wholly different part of the brain than where depression occurs.


Now you're just talking out of your ass.

Frontal lobes play a major role in beliefs. Mental representations of the world are integrated with sub-cortical information by prefrontal cortex. Amygdala and Hippocampus are involved in the process of thinking and thus help in execution of beliefs.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802367/

Numerous studies that focused on gray and white matter have found significant brain region alterations in major depressive disorder patients, such as in the frontal lobe, hippocampus, temporal lobe, thalamus, striatum, and amygdala.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6489983/

I amended my post to reflect that but alas you had already copied it.

[Syne]

The belief is in a wholly different part of the brain than where depression occurs.

Now you're just talking out of your ass.

Frontal lobes play a major role in beliefs. Mental representations of the world are integrated with sub-cortical information by prefrontal cortex. Amygdala and Hippocampus are involved in the process of thinking and thus help in execution of beliefs.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802367/

Numerous studies that focused on gray and white matter have found significant brain region alterations in major depressive disorder patients, such as in the frontal lobe, hippocampus, temporal lobe, thalamus, striatum, and amygdala.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6489983/

I amended my post to reflect that but alas you had already copied it.

Good for you. And way to use that to ignore the rest of that post.

[Zinjanthropos]

My brother told me a few weeks ago that I have no idea what it’s like to live with a suicidal person for over 30 years. He told me this just after his wife succeeded in killing herself. Several psychologists, psychiatrists and endless counseling apparently didn’t help. I’ve always thought of suicidal meaning extremely depressed. I think my bro would vouch for that description but he also feels it was hereditary, apparently not the only person in her family to do the deed, there have been others. Is that a possibility?

[confused2]

My brother told me a few weeks ago that I have no idea what it’s like to live with a suicidal person for over 30 years. He told me this just after his wife succeeded in killing herself. Several psychologists, psychiatrists and endless counseling apparently didn’t help. I’ve always thought of suicidal meaning extremely depressed. I think my bro would vouch for that description but he also feels it was hereditary, apparently not the only person in her family to do the deed, there have been others. Is that a possibility?

This would be about 50 years ago .. my mother told me some parts of the civil service wouldn't employ you if a close relative had committed suicide. I don't know whether it was the possible suicide risk or just a tendency towards loopyness that worried them.

[C C]

My brother told me a few weeks ago that I have no idea what it’s like to live with a suicidal person for over 30 years. He told me this just after his wife succeeded in killing herself. Several psychologists, psychiatrists and endless counseling apparently didn’t help. I’ve always thought of suicidal meaning extremely depressed. I think my bro would vouch for that description but he also feels it was hereditary, apparently not the only person in her family to do the deed, there have been others. Is that a possibility?

This would be about 50 years ago .. my mother told me some parts of the civil service wouldn't employ you if a close relative had committed suicide. I don't know whether it was the possible suicide risk or just a tendency towards loopyness that worried them.

Ernest Hemingway - Idaho & suicide: In a press interview five years later, Mary confirmed that he had shot himself.

Hemingway's behavior during his final years had been similar to that of his father, before he killed himself; his father may have had hereditary hemochromatosis, whereby the excessive accumulation of iron in tissues culminates in mental and physical deterioration.

Medical records made available in 1991 confirmed that Hemingway had been diagnosed with hemochromatosis in early 1961. His sister Ursula and his brother Leicester also killed themselves.

His granddaugher Margaux also committed suicide.

So... Hemingway's father, himself, his siblings, and a granddaughter. Who knows what the family history was prior to Hem's old man.

[stryder]

Depression is a bit like how Schizophrenia gets used as an Umbrella term. 
There can be many different forms of it, many different reasons for its existance and many different ways of treating or learning how to cope with it.

Some depression is chemistry based, it works a bit similar who someone can become physical addictive and dependent on a drug.  In other words a persons whole physiology is stuck with a particular feeling or reaction that won't just go away and can only be treated through chemistry itself.  The problem at that point is working out how to attempt to normalise the bodies own chemistry to the reaction that it should be normally. 

Psychiatrists would likely attempt to over power the bodies natural chemistry state and attempt to reset a new base line for a persons chemistry to operate from.  This of course can further the destructive potential of depression, because a person is no longer suffering just from the chemistry imbalances, they also have to take a back seat when it comes to their own ego (self).  As they are stripped of making many of their own choices themselves.... this leads to the other type of depression.... depression caused by the hands of others.

"Hell is other people" - Satre

Depression at the hands of others can be just down to continued interaction with a hostile or volatile person(s) (Family members, Collegues or Trolls)
Think of it a bit like driving along a road, knowing the destination you head for, but everytime you want/need to make a turn at an intersection, some troll blocks it with a truck. The first couple of intersections or turns you might be able to put up with, but slowly it would start eating into your nerve system.

That can over time of repeated undermining influence lead to nervous reactions, outbursts etc. (And if endured long enough, perhaps even schizophrenia)

The problem with this sort of depression is the only way to actually treat it, is to not be around those that create the problem in the first place. (Or learn how to be thicker skinned to those undermining issues that they so easily do without even necessarily meaning to) Better communication could potentially help between people in those instances, but only if they aren't actually being a hostile troll.

There is then self-assertive depression, or quite simplying being upset at yourself over a decision you've made. A simple example here is perhaps getting involved with a partner that ends up stealing from or cheating on you. It can lead to the question of "Why did I left this happen to myself?" of which the only person that can be blamed is themselves and they can end up hating themselves. This then becomes further emphasised as it creates an unhealthy chemistry which puts them further into depression.

[Magical Realist]

The many kinds of depression:

Major Depression
Persistent Depressive Disorder
Bipolar Disorder
Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD)
Psychotic Depression
Peripartum (Postpartum) Depression
Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder (PMDD)
'Situational' Depression
Atypical Depression
Treatment Resistant Depression

https://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/depression-types