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Is philosophy just a bunch of nonsense?

#1
C C Offline
https://bigthink.com/thinking/philosophy...e-useless/

KEY POINTS: Far from being a “useless” major, philosophy teaches people how to think clearly and logically — a skill that is always in demand. Importantly, a skilled philosopher can translate convoluted ideas into plain language. Scientists could be better communicators if they studied some philosophy. (MORE - details)
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Cynic: Kind of ridiculous and hypocritical for scientists to intermittently ask that in ... when their "struggling career" members are cranking out loads of later retracted research in this replication crisis, "publish or perish", and overall dwindling academic standards of this post-Western culture era...

...Especially when either they or the administrators lording over them (plus the pop magazines of their profession) fall all over backwards to cater to policies outputted by a cognitive orientation descended from the most morally pretentious, pseudo-scientific ideology ever, along with the offshoots of PoMo and neo-pragmatism. (Also with respect to that former school of philosophy, toss in the inevitable authoritarian opportunism, detention/punishment camps, revolutionary and reign of terror attributes in countries the vintage variety successfully consumed.)

IOW, today's institutions -- driven by political, motivated reasoning -- have chosen the very bottom drek of philosophy to wallow in and modify themselves to accommodate.
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#2
Magical Realist Offline
“Don't for heaven's sake, be afraid of talking nonsense! But you must pay attention to your nonsense.”
― Ludwig Wittgenstein
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#3
confused2 Offline
OK. I'm paying attention. CC's rant - what, who or which is the boogieman? I had a look at what a US college major means. Looks like the first and even second year is spent on Liberal Arts. I don't know (or care) what liberal arts is but what I do know is that I went to university to learn about electrical engineering. They (rightly) forced civil and mechanical engineering on me - the electrical guy might not be designing (say) a dam for a hydroelectric scheme but there's no harm in him being able to second guess the designer and maybe point out that for (say) the extra 20 billion spent on construction - you won't actually get any more electricity - or that the earth dam you are building will likely fail - quoting from Industry Standard sources. Three years learning about steel, earth, concrete, copper, silicon and 'space' - lectures from 9.00 am to 5.30pm 5 days a week except Wednesdays when afternoons were left free for R&R. Everything, abserlooterly everything, kind'a boiled down to maths.
That was an Electrical Engineering course in the UK in the 1970s. It has just dawned on me that I was then a fairly high functioning alcoholic - if I had carried on I might have become a fairly high functioning (alcoholic) consultant engineer.
I am paying (some) attention to the nonsense I'm writing. Take 'high functioning alcoholic' as a metaphor (or literal) for some, many (but not all) people in positions to make decisions about anything and everything.
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#5
confused2 Offline
@CC,
I honestly still don't know where you're coming from on this philosophy thing. I'd like to put a word in in favour of 'integrity' at least in science. One fail and they get thrown into the pit never to be seen or heard of again. But progress in science relies on the risk-taker and outlier. A while back I quoted someone [?] apropos #metoo as saying this is a phase we're going through and (by implication) things will be better when we get to the end of the phase.

Asimov (?) conjured up an age of enlightened self-interest - I can't finish what I started with that because the spectre of a (ruling) elite suddenly emerged.

I know nothing.

I would welcome clarification of your thoughts.
-C2
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#6
C C Offline
(Nov 11, 2021 11:24 PM)confused2 Wrote: @CC,
I honestly still don't know where you're coming from on this philosophy thing. [...] I would welcome clarification of your thoughts.
-C2


I wouldn't worry about it, C2.

One would have to be aware of the various barbs directed at philosophy by SOME scientists and their buffs over the decades [footnote], to appreciate the delicious irony unfolding since last year.

Thus, by happenstance, certain twisted amusements and entertainments may get limited to only "privileged" spectators being able to enjoy.

Most of the victims themselves are probably yet to fully apprehend what is afoot, what they sold to the devil, and how they're facilitating their own demise.

Jerry Coyne, whose comments appear intermittently in this sub-forum, is a bit more conscious and arguably less a dupe. He also may be dimly aware that a bottom-feeding school of philosophy is ultimately responsible for what occasionally irks him. Here, he seems to be hinting at something under the surface and flailing about in a subdued, general way at philosophy. But still can't pinpoint the specific nagging fly that is the ultimate source of his opined worries (elsewhere).

Ah, well. We -- a handful of indifferent, vicarious sadists -- look on wryly as the spider gradually weaves its web...

- - - footnote - - -

Random historical instance of the sci buff

Samuel James: Bill Nye is not a professional scientist, but he does play one on TV. You could even consider Nye a method actor, given how seamlessly he can disappear into his “science guy” alter ego. He does it so well, in fact, that he has flawlessly picked up on a lesser known trait of contemporary professional scientists: A dismissal of philosophy.

Nye’s skill was on display recently. Nye took to YouTube to answer a question from a philosophy major, who asked for Nye’s opinion on the discipline and on the disparaging comments made about it by some of Nye’s colleagues. Nye initially responded by saying that his colleagues haven’t actually disparaged philosophy, before going on to, well, disparage it himself.

Nye’s response wasn’t particularly impressive, and others have detailed his answer’s incoherence and deficient understanding of the actual disciplines of philosophy. But Nye shouldn’t be singled out in this regard. He is really just the latest in a long and distinguished line of scientific commentators to display skepticism at philosophy’s worth...



Random historical instance of the scientist

Jag Bhalla: Rebecca, you’ve worked on how philosophy and science relate—what strikes you about this tussle? In your book Plato at The Googleplex: Why Philosophy Won’t Go Away you call out “philosophy-jeering” scientists like Lawrence Krauss, who claims “science progresses and philosophy doesn’t.” What are philosophy-jeering scientists not seeing? And what are philosophers failing to make clear?
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#8
C C Offline
(Nov 12, 2021 08:15 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: But Krauss did apologize.

The Consolation of Philosophy

Where have you been?

It's like The Paradox Squad going eight issues or episodes without team member Janis Ace (alias The Sapphire Sleuth), and hoping the comic book won't cease publication or the show will elude cancellation.

- - - footnote - - -

* Excluding brief, return cameo appearances.
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#10
Yazata Offline
(Nov 10, 2021 05:09 PM)C C Wrote: Is philosophy just a bunch of nonsense?

Qx3bl7y!!! (And don't you forget it!!)

Quote:KEY POINTS: Far from being a “useless” major, philosophy teaches people how to think clearly and logically — a skill that is always in demand.

I guess that there aren't that many professional philosopher jobs, apart from a few highly competitive university teaching openings. But people with philosophy BAs don't typically do all that badly.

Median midcareer salary for people with philosophy BAs is $81,200. That's actually better than most university majors. For comparison, bachelors degrees in business management have midcareer salaries of $72,100. The median midcareer salary for sociology majors is $58,200. Finance majors (one of the best paying business specialties) come in at $88,300, not all that far ahead of philosophy majors. Philosophy majors are way ahead of journalism majors at $66,700.

Source --

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/d...-sort.html

And I should probably point out that for those considering law school, philosophy majors have the highest average LSAT scores of any university major.

Quote:Importantly, a skilled philosopher can translate convoluted ideas into plain language. Scientists could be better communicators if they studied some philosophy.

Something that philosophy students spend lots of their time doing is crafting arguments in written papers. That isn't just a skill-set particularly suited for attorneys, it's going to be useful wherever clear and persuasive written prose is important.

But all this is a bit wide of the mark. Philosophy isn't really about how much money one makes. It's about identifying unanswered questions about what might seem the most obvious and mundane aspects of life and about penetrating a bit deeper into the mysteries. It's more of a calling than a profession. In that regard it's like science I guess. There are probably more lucrative things that people could be doing than being a scientist, but presumably doing science has its own value. Philosophy is no different.
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