Are ghosts real?

[Leigha]

So, would that mean in your opinion, that ghosts aren't supernatural, they're ...natural?

If we include under nature all phenomena that manifests physically, then yes ghosts are natural and part of the cosmos. They are objectively real beings no less than minds and souls and numbers are.

My mind's a little blown right now. lol

Now, your ''beliefs'' make more sense to me. I have so many questions , but tomorrow is a new day. . .

[Syne]

So, would that mean in your opinion, that ghosts aren't supernatural, they're ...natural?

If we include under nature all phenomena that manifests physically, then yes ghosts are natural and part of the cosmos. They are objectively real beings no less than minds and souls and numbers are.

But whether ghosts actually manifest is exactly what's in question. You're just presuming it, without being able to show compelling evidence in support.

I believe in minds and souls and god, but I'm not deluded enough to believe any of them can be demonstrated as objective, physical manifestations.

[Magical Realist]

But whether ghosts actually manifest is exactly what's in question.

Leigha asked me what my beliefs are and I am answering. If you have a problem with that then go to another thread. Not every posting here is an argument.

[Syne]

But whether ghosts actually manifest is exactly what's in question.

Leigha asked me what my beliefs are and I am answering. If you have a problem with that then go to another thread. Not every posting here is an argument.

You don't get to play this hypocritical little game where you argue everyone's belief in god but demand that no one argue your belief in ghosts. If your beliefs can't stand the scrutiny you apply to the beliefs of others, that's your personal problem.

[Magical Realist]

You don't get to play this hypocritical little game where you argue everyone's belief in god but demand that no one argue your belief in ghosts

LOL I'll argue when I wanna argue and discuss my beliefs when I wanna discuss my beliefs. I'm under no obligation to you in any sense.

[Syne]

You don't get to play this hypocritical little game where you argue everyone's belief in god but demand that no one argue your belief in ghosts

LOL I'll argue when I wanna argue and discuss my beliefs when I wanna discuss my beliefs.

Then quit being a hypocrite and whining about it:

Leigha asked me what my beliefs are and I am answering. If you have a problem with that then go to another thread. Not every posting here is an argument.

I'm under no obligation to you in any sense.

Ditto.

[Leigha]

So, would that mean in your opinion, that ghosts aren't supernatural, they're ...natural?

If we include under nature all phenomena that manifests physically, then yes ghosts are natural and part of the cosmos. They are objectively real beings no less than minds and souls are.

Okay, I've been thinking about this, today. So, I'm going to believe along with you, for the sake of the discussion, that ghosts are natural, as you and I are. As real as the lake outside my house, or the clouds in the sky. How could science prove this? If they are in fact part of the physical world, wouldn't there be a way? (that would satisfy even the most stubborn skeptic)

This could be a fun thought experiment.

[Magical Realist]

Not sure there IS an experiment with ghosts that would satisfy scientists. Science requires that a phenomenon be repeatable, and paranormal activity is notorously unpredictable. Sometimes something happens, and other times it doesn't. So there is an element of randomness inherent to ghosts that can never be ruled out scientifically. At best recordings could be made, electrical fields measured, and objects moving could be caught on video but as for entailing a ghost I don't think they would take that theoretical leap. It would only be proof of paranormal activity.

[Leigha]

True. What made you “believe” that ghosts are of the natural, physical realm and not supernatural? I’ve always thought you believed ghosts are somehow tied to the supernatural, so I was surprised to read your post that you feel they’re part of “objective reality.”

[Magical Realist]

True. What made you “believe” that ghosts are of the natural, physical realm and not supernatural? I’ve always thought you believed ghosts are somehow tied to the supernatural, so I was surprised to read your post that you feel they’re part of “objective reality.”

What decided for me that the paranormal is part of the physical realm are the physical events that are caused by it--noises, voices, lights, EM fields, cold spots, apparitions, and moving objects. I can't conceive of an agency that isn't objectively real while having these effects.