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+--- Thread: Reality is self-perceptual, therefore the soul has independent existence (/thread-6100.html)
Reality is self-perceptual, therefore the soul has independent existence - Ostronomos - Sep 7, 2018
Emphasis is on the word "self". As the universe perceives itself through us. This conclusively represents self-perception. And since reality is self-perceptual, the soul can perceive itself independently of the body.
The soul has independent existence from the body because it is made to.
RE: Reality is self-perceptual, therefore the soul has independent existence - Syne - Sep 8, 2018
You obviously don't know the definition of "conclusively".
RE: Reality is self-perceptual, therefore the soul has independent existence - Yazata - Sep 8, 2018
(Sep 7, 2018 11:25 PM)Ostronomos Wrote: Reality is self-perceptual, therefore the soul has independent existence
"Reality is self-perceptual"... well at least one small part of reality seems to be, namely us. (And maybe some of the other higher animals.) Just because we are self-aware (whatever that means) certainly doesn't imply that the universe as a whole is.
"therefore the soul has independent existence"... I don't see how that follows from observing that we are real and we are (arguably) aware of ourselves (whatever that means).
Quote:Emphasis is on the word "self".
I think that the idea of self-awareness is problematic if we try to spin it such that it implies there is something called a 'self' in addition to our bodies and their activities that we are somehow directly aware of. I follow the Buddhists on that one.
Quote:As the universe perceives itself through us.
You seem to be expressing your own pantheistic faith there.
Quote:This conclusively represents self-perception. And since reality is self-perceptual, the soul can perceive itself independently of the body.
??? I don't understand how you reach that conclusion.
Quote:The soul has independent existence from the body because it is made to.
By what or whom? And what is a soul?
RE: Reality is self-perceptual, therefore the soul has independent existence - Ostronomos - Sep 8, 2018
(Sep 8, 2018 03:23 AM)Yazata Wrote:(Sep 7, 2018 11:25 PM)Ostronomos Wrote: Reality is self-perceptual, therefore the soul has independent existence
"Reality is self-perceptual"... well at least one small part of reality seems to be, namely us. (And maybe some of the other higher animals.) Just because we are self-aware (whatever that means) certainly doesn't imply that the universe as a whole is.
In part the universe appears self-perceptual/ self-aware. But if the parts equal the whole in terms of composition and qualities, then it may follow that the universe as a whole is equivalently the same in those terms. Mathematically carrying the parts to the whole does not require a great deal of effort.
Quote:"therefore the soul has independent existence"... I don't see how that follows from observing that we are real and we are (arguably) aware of ourselves (whatever that means).
Again, emphasis is on the relationship between self-perceptual capability and independent function.
Quote:I think that the idea of self-awareness is problematic if we try to spin it such that it implies there is something called a 'self' in addition to our bodies and their activities that we are somehow directly aware of. I follow the Buddhists on that one.
It is only problematic if one believes one is cut off from the rest of reality. That the parts do not equal the whole.
Quote:You seem to be expressing your own pantheistic faith there.
It is a fact that the universe has nothing but itself of which to consist and so we are the universe perceiving itself through itself.
Quote:??? I don't understand how you reach that conclusion.
Self-perception follows from the parts equaling the whole. Allow me to demonstrate it mathematically for the sake of simplicity: subsystems s recognize S within S. Where the universe's structure is given the label S and you and I would be self-perceptual subsystems s. This represents universal self-perception by s and S. And since S can contain nothing other than itself, because everything is a subset of it, S is perceiving S.
Quote:By what or whom? And what is a soul?
It was designed with intent by God. A soul can be thought of as the spiritual substance of the body equipped with its own essence and programmable structure.