We know some aspects of time, but it isn't something perceptible by touch. Maybe we can sense it some other way but for all intents we combine what we think is known about time and treat it as a concept. Space as far as I can tell is nothingness, a void. Yep I know matter currently resides in this emptiness. Although referring to outer space as emptiness seems oxymoronic .
Then there's space-time.
My dictionary describes space-time this way:
Quote:the concepts of time and three-dimensional space regarded as fused in a four-dimensional continuum.
Bad wording as it's hard to tell whether the conceptual description only deals with time or for 3D space as well. So my questions would be: Like time, is space a concept also? Anything that has no physical properties(can't be sensed), i.e. thoughts, are they also only concepts? Combining concepts to form an idea seems logical but can you do the same if one part of the mix is in actuality real in the same context as matter. Not saying space is tangible but I know some people who think it is.
Don't want to go to my grave not knowing if there is a true difference between space and time or if they're both concepts. I need this explained to me. Feel like I'm interpreting something wrong here. Any takers?
The way I think of space is the absence of matter but electromagnetism can still be present.
(Mar 22, 2018 07:24 PM)elte Wrote: [ -> ]The way I think of space is the absence of matter but electromagnetism can still be present.
Oh, and gravity, elte. There's a small of amount of gravity everywhere in space.
In the concept/object dichotomy, there's no sense in which I can imagine space being described or defined as an object.
(Mar 22, 2018 11:53 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]In the concept/object dichotomy, there's no sense in which I can imagine space being described or defined as an object.
I think I'd agree. Either they're both concepts or both objects...is that what you mean?
(Mar 23, 2018 02:38 AM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: [ -> ] (Mar 22, 2018 11:53 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]In the concept/object dichotomy, there's no sense in which I can imagine space being described or defined as an object.
I think I'd agree. Either they're both concepts or both objects...is that what you mean?
Well, I can't imaging time as an object either. But yes, they seem to be of the same kind.
When people seem to get hung up on whether expanding space is adding more of some object, whether more discrete space, dark matter, or something else, I remind them that spacetime includes time as an equal dimension, and that time goes on by simply becoming more time. Concepts can do that, because they are more relations or interactions between objects. The objects of time and just called events instead of things.
(Mar 23, 2018 03:16 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ] (Mar 23, 2018 02:38 AM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: [ -> ] (Mar 22, 2018 11:53 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]In the concept/object dichotomy, there's no sense in which I can imagine space being described or defined as an object.
I think I'd agree. Either they're both concepts or both objects...is that what you mean?
Well, I can't imaging time as an object either. But yes, they seem to be of the same kind.
When people seem to get hung up on whether expanding space is adding more of some object, whether more discrete space, dark matter, or something else, I remind them that spacetime includes time as an equal dimension, and that time goes on by simply becoming more time. Concepts can do that, because they are more relations or interactions between objects. The objects of time and just called events instead of things.
That's a pretty damn good post in my estimation. It made me think that if space is expanding then is time also? And how does time maintain its share of space-time while this is going on? I'm thinking as space expands that the time portion of space-time should become diluted or lose some percentage share? Was there more time available at the beginning than space
?
Yeah, the passage of time is essentially "making" more time, and space expands over time.
I don't subscribe to the notion of a "block" spacetime, where the future already exists, just waiting for the moving "now" to reach it, as that smacks of predetermination similar to some bad religious ideas.
(Mar 22, 2018 10:29 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]Oh, and gravity, elte. There's a small of amount of gravity everywhere in space.
I was thinking that I could have said energy instead of electromagnetism. Now that you mentioned gravity, Secular Sanity, I was trying to determine if gravity is matter or energy.