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(Nov 23, 2017 05:48 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]

(Nov 23, 2017 09:13 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]

(Nov 23, 2017 08:15 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]Where in the Bible does it say Christians can't do business with gay people? I've been studying religion for many years and have never heard of that belief until gay people started asking for wedding cakes. Sounds made up to me.

"...participate in gay weddings..."

Or is tacitly condoning something you believe immoral A-okay in whatever passes for morality with you?
Would you force someone to make a Nazi cake? O_o

"If anyone does not obey ... have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother. " - 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15

"And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. " - Romans 1:28-32

"But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one." - 1 Corinthians 5:11

"Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body." - 1 Corinthians 6:18


You were saying? O_o

So they're not even supposed to talk to gay people? I don't know of any Christians who practice that. And that can be really bad for business. They actually have to ask if someone is gay before they associate with them? How about people who fornicate and are adulterous and masturbate and other forms of "sexual immorality?" Do they avoid associating with them too?

Where does it say anything about not talking to someone? No one practice that because it's an obvious straw man.  
It is about association, and yes, if their immorality is known, they avoid that association. Nothing there says anything about prying into their personal life, but if they make their lifestyle known, a believer has a moral obligation.

Do you run around asking everyone if they have ever murdered anyone? Maybe you don't care if you associate with murderers? O_o

Quote:And that can be really bad for business.

Then why can't leftists trust the free market to take care of that?
Just think about it. If the free market took care of any discrimination, then no one could blame the government for restricting their religious freedom and destroying their business. They'd be forced to face the fact that they just cannot compete doing business that way. Wouldn't that mean so much more to progressive society?


You're still avoiding the question. Would you force someone to make a Nazi cake? If you can't answer that simple question, then you have no grounds for any moral preening whatsoever.

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(Nov 24, 2017 03:23 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]lol Those Christian business owners brought about their own demise. Don't feel sorry for bigots who try to peddle their bigotry off as ''religious freedom.'' Now, those business owners shouldn't be forced to offer their company services to anyone, but they shouldn't be surprised by the backlash they received. Maybe if this were 1930, they'd have bigotry in their favor, but the culture is somewhat divided, and bigots aren't winning anymore, like they used to. Bigots stand out for what they are, it's not just ''business as usual,'' anymore. There was also a time when African Americans couldn't eat in the same restaurants as white people, etc. Where do these Christian business owners draw the line? If they own bakeries, do they not bake cakes for hetero people who are having sex outside of marriage, etc? Do they give people a questionnaire before they agree to bake a cake for them?

Probably not. But, as the case with most hetero Christians, they seem to think that homosexuality is worse than hetero sins. Nope, don't feel all that sorry for people who discriminate against gay people.

Then why can't leftists let the market make that point, instead of giving those business owners the government to blame...and subsequently never really learning the lesson?
As I just asked MR, who goes around asking about the sexual conduct of others? Gays volunteer that info to a wedding baker. So you're little straw man is a nonsense reductio ad absurdum.

Quote:Meanwhile, Jesus ate with ''sinners.'' But, I guess some Christians think they know better than the One they follow.

How tragic that there are people who compare gay people marrying those they love, in a private/secular ceremony, to Nazis.

Did Jesus associate with sinners, or only show them kindness? Did he do anything to abet their sinning? No.
Who compares gays to Nazis? Sounds like another straw man.

You did, above. Own your bigoted statements, at least.

Quote:Where does it say anything about not talking to someone? No one practice that because it's an obvious straw man. Rolleyes

Talking to a person is associating with them. There is no church that exists that teaches you can't talk or associate with gays, adulterers, masturbators, fornicators or anyone else they consider sexually immoral. None whatsoever. It's just some homophobic shit you pulled out of your ass and are trying to pass off as christian doctrine.

Quote:It is about association, and yes, if their immorality is known, they avoid that association. Nothing there says anything about prying into their personal life, but if they make their lifestyle known, a believer has a moral obligation.

No...christians don't believe that. Paul the demented fanatic did. But then who nowadays follows his bizzare admonitions? You'd have to live as a hermit to follow that rule.

And again, there is no ruie saying you can't do business with gay people. None whatsoever. It's just a big fat excuse for homophobes to discriminate on the basis of one's sexual orientation, and that's against the law.

(Nov 24, 2017 05:11 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]You did, above. Own your bigoted statements, at least.

Liar!

You don't even have the nerve to try quoting whatever your accusation alludes to. Pathetic, even for ad hominem.

(Nov 24, 2017 05:19 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Where does it say anything about not talking to someone? No one practice that because it's an obvious straw man.  Rolleyes

Talking to a person is associating with them. There is no church that exists that teaches you can't talk or associate with gays, adulterers, masturbators, fornicators or anyone else they consider sexually immoral. None whatsoever. It's just some homophobic shit you pulled out of your ass and are trying to pass off as christian doctrine.

associate - to join as a partner, friend, or companion
to keep company with
to come or be together as partners, friends, or companions

Again, it's only your ignorant straw man that conflates "talking to" and "associating with".
Do you ONLY talk to someone who is your "partner, friend, or companion"? Which of those do you consider me?
And I just quoted the Bible saying exactly what you're trying to deny. Are you blind, or just delusional? O_o

"If anyone does not obey ... have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother. " - 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15


Obviously, you have to talk to someone to "warn him as a brother".

I don't know about you, but I'm perfectly capable of treating others kindly while not joining them as a "partner, friend, or companion" or "keep[ing] company with" them.


"The many Christian denominations vary in their position, from condemning homosexual acts as sinful, through being divided on the issue, to seeing it as morally acceptable." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christiani...osexuality

So even granting that some may consider gays as "partner, friend, or companion", contributing to an immoral act is itself immoral.
Or do you think knowingly selling ammo to a professed intended murder to be A-okay in whatever passes for morality with you? O_o

Quote:

Quote:It is about association, and yes, if their immorality is known, they avoid that association. Nothing there says anything about prying into their personal life, but if they make their lifestyle known, a believer has a moral obligation.

No...christians don't believe that. Paul the demented fanatic did. But then who nowadays follows his bizzare admonitions? You'd have to live as a hermit to follow that rule.

And again, there is no ruie saying you can't do business with gay people. None whatsoever. It's just a big fat excuse for homophobes to discriminate on the basis of one's sexual orientation, and that's against the law.

Again, how many people to YOU go around asking if they've ever murdered anyone? Gays volunteer that info to wedding bakers...but no doubt you'll continue to ignore that inconvenient fact...pushing your ignorant straw man.

NO ONE ever said they couldn't "do business with gay people". Are you that ignorant or just that big a troll that you keep making such blatant straw man arguments? O_o

Christian bakers, florists, photographers, etc. "do business" with gays ALL THE TIME. They just don't condone or contribute to gay weddings. Starting to understand the difference yet? Any of these facts starting to seep through that thick skull of yours? O_o




Next time on MR....watch as MR continues to avoid inconvenient questions and attempts in vain to distract with the most obvious straw man arguments. Riveting!

Quote:to keep company with

Right moron. To keep company with as in talking to and socializing with them. Everybody seems to know what associating with someone means except you. And there is no Christian who refuses to associate with anyone who doesn't have heterosexual sex with a married spouse or has no sex at all. The question never comes up because it is irrelevant to them. From their barber to their plumber to their cousins to their coworkers or their neighbors, they don't care what their sexual activities are. They still associate with them and talk to them like normal human beings. Your made up rule doesn't exist. And not supporting a marriage of two gay people IS refusing to do business with them because they are gay. It is discriminating against them for being gay. It is refusing to provide service for a wedding, a service they are in the business of providing, solely because it is between two gay people. And that's against the law.

As predicted, on MR....

(Nov 24, 2017 08:12 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:to keep company with

Right moron. To keep company with as in talking to and socializing with them. Everybody seems to know what associating with someone means except you.

keep company
1. To spend time with one for the sake of companionship, or in order to keep them from being lonely.
2. To associate (with). The people you keep company with reflect greatly on your character.
3. dated To court someone.

Again, which of these do you consider me? O_o

You know, aside from the fact that you can talk to someone without socializing with them.

socialize - to participate actively in a social group

Do you "participate actively in a social group" with the cashier you talk to at the convenience store?

"In the social sciences, a social group has been defined as two or more people who interact with one another, share similar characteristics, and collectively have a sense of unity." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_group

You know you're a dolt when people have to incessantly give you vocabulary lessons.

Quote:And there is no Christian who refuses to associate with anyone who doesn't have heterosexual sex with their married spouse or has no sex at all.

LOL! What? Yeah, married people often don't have sex...neither to virgins. Where are those called sins? Celibacy is actually a requirement for some priests.

Quote:The question never comes up because it is irrelevant to them. From their barber to their plumber to their cousins to their coworkers, they don't care what their sexual activities are. They still associate with them and talk to them like normal human beings. Your made up rule doesn't exist.

The question never comes up because your barber, plumber, cousins, and coworkers rarely volunteer that info (without risking sexual harassment charges in many cases). And yet again, associate doesn't mean talking to, moron. Your made up straw man is idiotic twaddle.

Quote:And not supporting a marriage of two gay people IS refusing to do business with them because they are gay. It is discriminating against them for being gay. It is refusing to provide service for a marriage because it is between two gay people.

Now you're just equivocating "doing business" in general with "doing business" specifically contributing to immoral acts. It is religious discrimination to deny people the free expression of religion guaranteed in the Constitution. It is fascism to force people to provide a service contrary to their conscience. And you know how I can tell that?

>>>>Would you force someone to make a Nazi cake?
If yes, you're a fascist. If no, you're a pathetic hypocrite demanding people provide services for gay weddings. So...which is it? O_o

Quote:And that's against the law.

Only in leftist, anti-religious states. Why do you think they never try this crap in seriously red states? Federal law has no protections for sexual orientation.


"Federal nondiscrimination laws covering public accommodations cover only race, color, religion, national origin, and disability. Federal law does not prohibit discrimination based on sex, gender identity or sexual orientation in public accommodations.

The majority of states (44 and the District of Columbia) prohibit discrimination based on sex in public accommodations. Many state courts and enforcement agencies have interpreted these laws to protect transgender people.

Many states and localities also explicitly prohibit discrimination based on gender identity and sexual orientation in public accommodations. The following 17 states have explicit protections" - https://transequality.org/know-your-righ...mmodations


Anything else you need a lesson on, moron?
Please, keep digging.

Quote:Again, which of these do you consider me? O_o

I'm associating with you because I'm talking to you. It's a socializing process. It's all the same activity.

Quote:LOL! What? Yeah, married people often don't have sex...neither to virgins. Where are those called sins? Celibacy is actually a requirement for some priests.

You evidently have an english comprehension problem. Figure out what I said because I'm not explaining it to you.

Quote:Now you're just equivocating "doing business" in general with "doing business" specifically contributing to immoral acts.

A gay wedding is nowhere described in the bible as an immoral act. Only gay sex is. So they are discriminating against someone for participating in a non-moral act just because they are gay. And that's against the law.

(Nov 24, 2017 09:03 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]

(Nov 24, 2017 08:52 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]keep company
1. To spend time with one for the sake of companionship, or in order to keep them from being lonely.
2. To associate (with). The people you keep company with reflect greatly on your character.
3. dated To court someone.

Again, which of these do you consider me? O_o

I'm associating with you because I'm talking to you.

So according to that definition, I "reflect greatly on your character"?

Quote:It's a socializing process. It's all the same activity.

(Nov 24, 2017 08:52 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]You know, aside from the fact that you can talk to someone without socializing with them.

socialize - to participate actively in a social group

Do you "participate actively in a social group" with the cashier you talk to at the convenience store?  

"In the social sciences, a social group has been defined as two or more people who interact with one another, share similar characteristics, and collectively have a sense of unity." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_group

So you and I " interact with one another, share similar characteristics, and collectively have a sense of unity"?

Apparently you can't be taught simple vocabulary.

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:And there is no Christian who refuses to associate with anyone who doesn't have heterosexual sex with their married spouse or has no sex at all.

LOL! What? Yeah, married people often don't have sex...neither to virgins. Where are those called sins? Celibacy is actually a requirement for some priests.

You evidently have an english comprehension problem. Figure out what I said because I'm not explaining it to you.

LOL! Learn proper grammar, moron. Being extremely generous and assuming you meant "anyone who doesn't have [has] heterosexual sex with [anyone other than] their married spouse", you're still a complete moron for assuming anyone who "has no sex at all" is somehow immoral. But again, people don't tend to volunteer that they are cheating on their spouse.

Maybe your associates do, but you need to get out more if you think that's common.

Quote:

Quote:Now you're just equivocating "doing business" in general with "doing business" specifically contributing to immoral acts.

A gay wedding is nowhere described in the bible as an immoral act. Only gay sex is. So they are discriminating against someone for participating in a non-moral act just because they are gay. And that's against the law.

You have to be trolling. No one can be such an imbecile that they cannot connect the simple dots between gay sex and a formal relationship socially approving sexual relations (e.g. marriage). You're fabricating a mythical unicorn called the married celibate gay.


Marriage is literally described as a joining of the flesh in the Bible:

"He said in reply, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate.”" - Matthew 19:4-6

"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." - Genesis 2:24

"But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. 3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband." - 1 Corinthians 7:2&3


And only heterosexual marriage is expressly approved:

"He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord." - Proverbs 18:22



You were saying, dipshit?  

Quote:So according to that definition, I "reflect greatly on your character"?

lol! No moron. That wasn't a definition. That was an example sentence showing useage. Don't you know how to read a dictionary?

Quote:So you and I " interact with one another, share similar characteristics, and collectively have a sense of unity"?

Apparently you can't be taught simple vocabulary.

socialize, verb.
4.
to associate or mingle sociably with others

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/socialize

Quote:You have to be trolling. No one can be such an imbecile that they cannot connect the simple dots between gay sex and a formal relationship socially approving sexual relations (e.g. marriage). You're fabricating a mythical unicorn called the married celibate gay.


Marriage is literally described as a joining of the flesh in the Bible:

"He said in reply, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate.”" - Matthew 19:4-6

"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh." - Genesis 2:24

"But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. 3 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband." - 1 Corinthians 7:2&3


And only heterosexual marriage is expressly approved:

"He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord." - Proverbs 18:22



You were saying, dipshit? Rolleyes

Those bible verses only praise marriage. They don't condemn gay marriage, There is nothing in the bible condeming gay marriage and you know it. Not that the bible condeming anything means shit. I mean it basically condemns sex outside of marriage, and we all know how well that's goin don't we?

"...participate in gay weddings..."

Or is tacitly condoning something you believe immoral A-okay in whatever passes for morality with you?
Would you force someone to make a Nazi cake? O_o


You posted that ^^, Syne. Why are you introducing this analogy unless you somehow put on the same level a gay couple wanting a wedding cake to celebrate their secular union, with a Nazi? 0..o Sorry, that is exactly what bigotry is.

No one is forcing Christian business owners to do anything, but they shouldn't be surprised if their bigotry goes viral through social media, and the government steps in to take a closer look. Using the Bible as a blueprint to discriminate against people in one's business, isn't really what religious freedom is about. Where would that end? The Bible also speaks about people of the same ethnicity marrying the same ethnicity, and people not being ''unequally yoked'' in marriage. So, if a couple walks in, the bride to be being Jewish, and the groom to be being Christian, the same Christian baker should just be allowed to discriminate and refuse to bake a wedding cake for them, too? Civil liberties actually trump religious nuances, when it comes to running a secular business.

This doesn't really have anything to do with Starbucks, but if you dislike what they're doing with their cups, don't buy their product. No one is forced to do business, and Starbucks shouldn't be forced to pretend like gay people are inferior simply because their conservative right customer base feels that way. I always marvel at the hatred spewed by a group of people (Christians) who are supposed to be all about love.