Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum

Full Version: Adam Frank: new UFO hearings continue an “endless loop” of sensation
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Lying about what? They aren't making any claims other than people are reporting witnessing unknown things. You've been making the exact same claim for years. Thinking a government entity reporting the same thing lends it veracity is just an appeal to authority.

America's "space agency" picking up the UFO ball was bound to raise eyebrows and concerns for NASA's reputation. But if it's handled well, the commission could do more than shed much-needed light on UAPs. It could also give Americans a masterclass in the most basic, most important, and unfortunately, most boring topic in science: Standards of Evidence.
...
To see the importance of standards of evidence, let's take an example from my team's work. If my colleagues and I want to claim we've found a signature of industrial chemicals — and hence a civilization — in light coming from a distant planet, we expect the rest of the research community will come after us with the big guns drawn. Every aspect of our data — our evidence — will be poured over and torn apart. Did we use the telescope correctly? Did we mis-identify the atomic physics that created the signature? Most importantly, have we convincingly eliminated the many more mundane ways that our signal might arise? Only if our evidence passes those standards, which have been carefully formulated and codified by the entire research community, can we continue with our claim of finding alien life.

But when it comes to UAPS/UFOs there are no such standards. It's just a free-for-all.
- https://www.newsweek.com/search-ufos-may...on-1721162

Quote:They aren't making any claims other than people are reporting witnessing unknown things. You've been making the exact same claim for years.

They described based on the video evidence and pilot reports the distinctive characteristics, appearance, and behavior of these uaps. A real anomalous phenomenon that defies anything known that is manmade or natural. Unless you wanna claim we can fly 4 meter metallic spheres up to Mach 2 with no thermal propulsion. Sorry, we don't have the physics for that yet. Read the report again if you missed it.


Quote:Thinking a government entity reporting the same thing lends it veracity is just an appeal to authority

It's the authority of those who have the global evidence and have scientifically analyzed it and have reached solid conclusions about it. If you fail to respect that then you're just another moron in denial.
(Nov 18, 2024 05:50 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:They aren't making any claims other than people are reporting witnessing unknown things. You've been making the exact same claim for years.

They described based on the video evidence and pilot reports the distinctive characteristics, appearance, and behavior of these uaps. A real anomalous phenomenon that defies anything known that is manmade or natural.
Aside from the appeal to authority, how does that differ from years of your own claims?
Just some more details? But still no closer to any explanation.

Quote:
Quote:Thinking a government entity reporting the same thing lends it veracity is just an appeal to authority

It's the authority of those who have the global evidence and have scientifically analyzed it and have reached solid conclusions about it. If you fail to respect that then you're just another moron in denial.

So double down on the appeal to authority fallacy. 9_9
Quote:Aside from the appeal to authority, how does that differ from years of your own claims?
Just some more details? But still no closer to any explanation.

It confirms everything I have been claiming for around 20 years now based on eyewitness accounts and videos and photos. I have never claimed to explain what they are. I only claim to know what they aren't. And based on their performance and appearance, I infer that they are some technology of advanced non-human control and origin. That's why they are called unidentified anomalous phenomena.
Confirms? You mean the exact same claims, without any stronger evidence than an appeal to authority.
They haven't claimed to explain what they are either.

I don't see any difference.
The thing CC is quoting begins by saying...

"Astronomer Adam Frank asks: With so many extraordinary claims, why can’t anybody produce the proof?"

And once again, I think that the word 'proof' is being misused. Proofs only exist in logic and mathematics. What Frank seems to be demanding here is something like "An argument/body of evidence that will finally convince me". Of course that will be a sliding scale, depending on who the 'me' is. Some credulous people are easy to convince, other people will be impossible to convince, especially if they set their standard as the elimination of all possibility of error.

So the word 'proof' typically includes another idea. It suggests the existence of some objective standard that holds true for everyone, that must be met before an argument/body of evidence can properly be said to be convincing.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that standard has ever been found. It certainly hasn't found universal agreement.

As for me, I find the evidence for the proposition that 'Something extraordinary seems to have been happening in some of these cases' to be very convincing. I base that upon the consilience of multiple visual sightings by trained observers, radar contacts and photographic evidence such as are reported in the 'tic-tac' episodes and other episodes like them. (The ufology literature is full of them.)

Note that I'm only expressing my personal conviction, not a demand that others think the same. And that only regarding the occurrence of extraordinary events. That seems rather indisputable to me, assuming that these events occurred as described.

If we go beyond that to the claim that the extraordinary events were in fact alien space vehicles, I'm less convinced. My feeling is that we are getting out ahead of the evidence when we do that, and are injecting an element of speculation.

That said, I am convinced that alien space vehicles remains an open hypothesis as to what they were. I can't eliminate it, even if I'm not yet convinced that it's the correct hypothesis.

When we move past that to the hypothesis that the United States and other countries know about this, have recovered some of these vehicles and are trying to reverse engineer them, I'm even less convinced. I'll say that I expect that it's probably not true. I'm inclined to disbelieve it. (The world's governments have never displayed the ability to hold secrets this tightly without them leaking. If we have manufactured vehicles capable of superluminal velocities etc., where are the factories? Why continue to build F-35's and B-21's at great expense?)

But again, all that said, I do accept the hypothetical possibility that it's all true. But like Adam Frank, I want to see a lot more before I commit myself to the belief that it is.

nsNS
Quote:When we move past that to the hypothesis that the United States and other countries know about this, have recovered some of these vehicles and are trying to reverse engineer them, I'm even less convinced. I'll say that I expect that it's probably not true. I'm inclined to disbelieve it. (The world's governments have never displayed the ability to hold secrets this tightly without them leaking. If we have manufactured vehicles capable of superluminal velocities etc., where are the factories? Why continue to build F-35's and B-21's at great expense?)

That's a good argument against the government ufo technology theory. Having access to craft that have anti-gravity and superluminal capabilities would surely have been incorporated into the manufacture and testing of such technology by now. It reminds me of that scene in MIB when the men in black walk into the black-ops facility and there are aliens everywhere and futuristic devices. So where is this facility? And why are they still keeping it a secret?
(Nov 19, 2024 05:20 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:When we move past that to the hypothesis that the United States and other countries know about this, have recovered some of these vehicles and are trying to reverse engineer them, I'm even less convinced. I'll say that I expect that it's probably not true. I'm inclined to disbelieve it. (The world's governments have never displayed the ability to hold secrets this tightly without them leaking. If we have manufactured vehicles capable of superluminal velocities etc., where are the factories? Why continue to build F-35's and B-21's at great expense?)

That's a good argument against the government ufo technology theory. Having access to craft that have anti-gravity and superluminal capabilities would surely have been incorporated into the manufacture and testing of such technology by now. It reminds me of that scene in MIB when the men in black walk into the black-ops facility and there are aliens everywhere and futuristic devices. So where is this facility? And why are they still keeping it a secret?

Replaying a discussion from 40 years ago about glowing spheres seen in the 1950s..

They didn't seem to have any inertia (0 to 500mph in 0 seconds) .. so they may have had no mass which suggests they were projections transmitted from somewhere else. If projections then nothing to find at their apparent location.
(Nov 19, 2024 06:38 PM)confused2 Wrote: [ -> ]
(Nov 19, 2024 05:20 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote:When we move past that to the hypothesis that the United States and other countries know about this, have recovered some of these vehicles and are trying to reverse engineer them, I'm even less convinced. I'll say that I expect that it's probably not true. I'm inclined to disbelieve it. (The world's governments have never displayed the ability to hold secrets this tightly without them leaking. If we have manufactured vehicles capable of superluminal velocities etc., where are the factories? Why continue to build F-35's and B-21's at great expense?)

That's a good argument against the government ufo technology theory. Having access to craft that have anti-gravity and superluminal capabilities would surely have been incorporated into the manufacture and testing of such technology by now. It reminds me of that scene in MIB when the men in black walk into the black-ops facility and there are aliens everywhere and futuristic devices. So where is this facility? And why are they still keeping it a secret?

Replaying a discussion from 40 years ago about glowing spheres seen in the 1950s..

They didn't seem to have any inertia (0 to 500mph in 0 seconds) .. so they may have had no mass which suggests they were projections transmitted from somewhere else. If projections then nothing to find at their apparent location.

Yes! These types of uaps, like glowing orange orbs and the tic tacs, accelerate instantly and make 90 degree full speed turns as if they have no mass or inertia. Being projections from some invisible source would be one explanation. Another is that we are talking here of a technology beyond normal matter and made of some exotic and undiscovered kind of matter.
Or a technology that manipulates the Higgs field in some way perhaps..

Here's a paper I just found speculating on the nature of uaps, particularly the luminous kind witnessed in Hessdalen Norway.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication...xplanation

"A major observational fact that has baffled scientists in Hessdalen, and elsewhere many other persons, concerns the dynamic behavior and shapes of UAPs. UAPs appear out of nothing, remain immobile in the sky, move slowly, accelerate suddenly, take sharp turns, move at a high speed, and disappear instantly. Balls, chains, or clusters of dots, spiral-shaped, and irregularly shaped UAPs have been seen and photographically recorded in Hessdalen (Strand 2011) and elsewhere. Most of the observed UAP movements and shapes are incompatible with any known hypothesis based on natural, earth-related causes."
6 intriguing theories to explain what UAPs are. I lean toward the idea that they are from a parallel reality or dimension, but remain open to them being any transhuman technology/intelligence at this point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5FZZqh_fu8
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6