"DBS: Tell us your objections to the extraterrestrial hypothesis as the explanation for UFOs.
JV: If we had done this interview 20 years ago I would have told you the best theory we have is that this is extraterrestrial. We do know that UFOs are a physical phenomenon, they offer us an opportunity to do some good science, and they seem to come from the sky. We have the capability to go to the moon and very soon to go to other planets. I do believe that there is life throughout this Universe. So why couldn’t "they" come here?
In the last 20 years we’ve learned a lot of new things about this phenomenon that contradicts the idea that it is extraterrestrial.
We have too many Close Encounters. The extraterrestrial theory on the first level assumes that these are explorers on a mission. They are supposed to have evolved on some other planet and are coming here. But if they have to study us by landing 100,000 times, they have to be very dumb! That’s approximately the volume of data we have on Close Encounters reports today. If you were to take into account that those tend to occur at night when there are fewer observers, if you extrapolate you would actually get into millions of landings.
Now, it wouldn’t take us millions of landings if there was a civilization on Mars we wanted to study. With something the size of a beer keg in orbit we could get most of the things we needed to know about them, especially if they’d been broadcasting "I Love Lucy" into space for so many years! Then we’d want to land to check some things and get actual samples. We’d land maybe a few dozen times, maybe a few hundred times, but we wouldn’t need millions of landings. So that aspect of it is a contradiction with the idea that it’s an extraterrestrial mission.
The second contradiction is the shape of the beings. They are uniformly humanoid in shape, somewhat bizarre and weird. They are described as having big eyes and being short with longer arms and so on, but still they have two legs, two arms. They have a torso and eyes that are adapted to exactly the same part of the spectrum as we are.
They don’t walk around with goggles or strange devices on their eyes. They seem to hear what we hear; they seem to be breathing our air. That means they’re human or very close to human beings! It’s very unlikely that beings evolving on radically different planets would end up looking like us, breathing our air, seeing the same part of the spectrum that we see. I think the biological statistics are against it.
So you can say, "Well, they are so smart they are using biogenetic engineering to adapt to this planet and its gravity." But then why don’t they just create complete human beings? If you can go 99% of the way, why not 100%, and then you’d be completely undetectable? So I think that’s a serious obstacle to the ET theory.
Another argument is that this is not a recent phenomenon. It is a phenomenon that has existed, as far as we can tell, throughout history in one form or another. Without going back to Ezekiel or to Medieval folklore, we do have excellent UFO report records from 1897. I personally have a number of sightings that living people whom I actually met with and interviewed have told me about that they were witnesses of in the twenties and thirties.
So this certainly invalidates the idea that we’re dealing with a civilization that has just discovered us and is coming here now. UFOs seem to have been a part of our environment for a very long time, perhaps as long as man has existed.
Another problem with the extraterrestrial hypothesis is the behavior of these beings. The mainstream of UFOlogy today claims that these are wise explorers of the galaxy who are coming here to study us and the proof of that is what they do. In abductions, for example, they take away human beings. They seem to carry them inside a craft and they draw blood from them. They take samples from them, such as sperm and ova and these look like biological experiments to people like Budd Hopkins and his followers.
Well, I think it proves entirely the opposite thing, because the descriptions that are given of the medical examinations are crude to the point of being absurd. If you had this technology, disc-shaped vehicles that could fly silently and appear out of nowhere, paralyze people and remain unnoticed; if you wanted to, you could land on the roof of the Mayo Clinic or any large research hospital and you’d have access to the blood bank, the sperm, bank, the frozen embryo banks.
We are close to having the techniques for cloning people. You could potentially restart the human race with what we know today on Earth, yet we have only been doing molecular biology for about fifteen years. It’s a very young science, a new science. Think about it. If we can already do this and these beings are supposedly a million years ahead of us, they should be able to perform experiments that would be way beyond what we do.
Instead what people describe is victims coming back with obvious scars. They come back bleeding, they have things up their nose, they have terrible dreams, intense trauma, and they remember under hypnosis! The whole thing is completely absurd. The mind control people in the military already have drugs that can make people forget what they did for a week or what they did on Tuesday between 2 and 3, and no hypnotist could simply put them into a trance and recover the memory. So if we already have that kind of drug, a civilization millions of years in advance of us should be able to manipulate both the body and the memory much better.
Another thing that has been swept under the rug by UFOlogists, which is yet another argument against the extraterrestrial hypothesis, is that these objects change shape. In other words, they are not always discs or eggs or cigars. They change shape dynamically.
When I went to the Soviet Union, I met a man named Vladimir Azhazha, who is head of the research committee on UFOs in Moscow. He said, "You know, one of the most important aspects of this whole phenomenon is that it’s polymorphic." I wasn’t sure my interpreter was translating accurately, so I had him repeat that. He said, "It’s polymorphic; they change shapes. An object will appear as a disc and as it’s moving through the sky it will change into a cube or into a pyramid or it will vanish on the spot."
I showed him an article where I had said essentially the same thing. He looked at me and he said, "You know, it’s as if you and I had been working together for the last ten years." This shows something rather remarkable about the phenomenon, which is that two people who have been studying it in earnest in completely different parts of the world under completely different conditions will arrive at the same conclusions about it.
If it changes shape, if it can appear out of nowhere and disappear into nowhere, this is not just a bunch of spacecraft. This is a much more interesting technology that manipulates dimensions. It manipulates space-time.
And if it can do that, then it can be from anywhere and anytime.
DBS: Where are they coming from, if not from outer space?
JV: Let me try to separate what I think I can prove from personal speculation. I would feel comfortable standing up in front of a scientific committee and I think I could argue convincingly that the UFO phenomenon is a real, unrecognized phenomenon; that it is physical and that it can manipulate space and time in ways that we don’t understand.
Beyond that, my own personal speculation which I could not prove is that the phenomenon represents a form of consciousness that is nonhuman. There’s a big distinction here. A lot of people might agree that there are unrecognized phenomena in nature, but wouldn’t necessarily agree that they are conscious even though they are nonhuman. If UFOs represent a form of consciousness then obviously it could originate in outer space, but not with the first level, nuts-and-bolts extraterrestrial hypothesis. It would have to be a lot more sophisticated than that. There could be a form of consciousness out in space that can manipulate dimensions. But it could just as easily be here on earth. It could be using the Earth as its home port.
It could also be tied to human consciousness. The Collective Unconscious could be doing this to us, projecting images that are important during the current crisis we are going through. It could also come from a form of creature that has always lived on Earth with us and is not an alien consciousness, in the sense that we usually think of aliens. This goes back to the traditions about the faeries and gnomes and Little People: what I have called the Magonia tradition, that in fact there is another Universe right here. Perhaps most of us just don’t see it, but it’s here.
When I started Passport to Magonia, I gathered all the old books about the faeries and the Good People, the Good Neighbors. This is a wonderful body of literature. These beings did approximately what the UFO beings do today. They would fly at night in strange cone-shaped luminous craft, they would abduct human beings, they even had little pins that would paralyze you. This is centuries ago, okay? And it matches reports from people who see UFOs today.
So I think that parallel is very interesting. It’s still one of my favorite theories but there could be others! You could argue that there are natural phenomena that play a role in all this. For instance, Paul Devereux has written several books about "Earth lights" which he has shown to be tied to several megalithic sites.
Whether the megaliths have anything to do with UFOs, or whether those sites tended to have strange lights so that over the years people used them for their temple and put a rock there, is open to question. Perhaps it was a natural phenomenon all along. That’s a possibility, but it really does not explain all UFOs.
The other possibility is that there may be forces within the Earth tied to some old traditions. There may be unrecognized telluric currents, forces within the Earth that could manifest in the form of electromagnetic phenomena that could become luminous and float through the air. Usually those things we don’t think of as being intelligent but who knows? Maybe it could be a form of consciousness.
There are other way-out theories that I find entertaining. We could imagine superconductive clouds moving through the galaxy taking any shape they want. Say, if you were a superconductive hydrogen cloud ten times the size of the solar system and you wanted to look like a Volkswagen, who could stop you from looking like a Volkswagen? You could do anything you wanted to!
There is a book called The Black Cloud by Fred Hoyle, who is one of our greatest living astronomers. It is a science fiction story about a conscious hydrogen cloud. Now, of course if there was such a cloud we’d presumably see it as it came closer to the Earth. But there may be forms of plasma that we don’t know how to detect yet, or maybe we’re simply not looking for them.
Now, I don’t specifically believe all that, but these are fun theories that should be looked at. Paul Devereux’s hypothesis of the Earth Lights is a very important one.
Geologists today are beginning to reassess the descriptions by people who said they saw lights before an earthquake: "I saw this globe of light and it flew down the canyon and ten minutes later there was an earthquake!" Geologists used to say those were ignorant farmers who didn’t know their physics. Now they are beginning to realize that before an earthquake the friction forces within the Earth could well create plasma or electromagnetic discharges that could become visible. In fact, scientists like Dr. John Derr at the US Geological Survey have found a correlation of these lights with fault lines and earthquakes."===
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