France enters another lock down

[Leigha]

https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbrea...bed5c3d930

How is it that China has seemed to gain successful control of Covid19, while other parts of the world are still struggling? I've been reading about how the population in China takes respiratory viruses very seriously, but I can't help but think that why China has been recovering faster than other parts of the world, is largely due to their government restricting the personal freedoms of its citizens, unlike the West. I wouldn't want to reside under such a government, but it's simply an interesting observation. China also seemed to erect hospitals within days, and contact tracing at rapid rates, as well. They've literally seemed to break the chain of transmission. I've read that they kept their lock down going until they reached local transmission to zero. Now, some skeptics would say that they don't believe anything coming out of China, but people's lives overall in China, have restored to nearly normal.

I don't think that the US will be able to withstand another lock down (economically or emotionally), that horse has been let out of the barn, and there's no leading him back in. But, suppose there was a federal mandate for another lock down? How would the US handle it?

[Syne]

Since China won't allow independent, outside health workers to check for themselves, we really have no idea what China's real numbers may be, nor even their criteria for recording a positive case or death. Even with their authoritarian restrictions on movement, they have every incentive to make even their own people believe it's working, whether it is or not. Breaking the chain of transmission could also involve killing the infected...and their whole household. We just have no real idea.

Many US states would ignore a federally mandated lockdown. They were always a bad idea (versus the at-risk isolating themselves until herb immunity or vaccines), and only deep blue states or cities are likely to put up with them any more...and maybe ever.

[Leigha]

That’s a good point. I’ve read that China has “changed” its definition of Covid in terms of excluding positive Covid cases based on symptoms. What? It should be based on the number of negative tests.

[Syne]

LOL! I said "herb immunity". At-risk people need to isolate themselves until they can handle more oregano.

[Yazata]

How is it that China has seemed to gain successful control of Covid19, while other parts of the world are still struggling?

My suspicion is that China is simply lying about it.

When covid first appeared in Wuhan, the Chinese government tried to cover it up. Doctors were arrested for reporting cases.

While the initial cover-up was in place, at least a million people left the city. (Residents, visitors and people passing through.) Then the Chinese government suddenly reversed course and locked the city down. But by then the disease was out of Wuhan and was all over China. Lockdowns started to spread to other cities. Long distance transport was restricted.

So what to do then? They could lock the whole country down, but that would kill the Chinese economy and halt the whole triumphant 'Rise of China' narrative.

Better to return to the cover-up strategy so as to get the factories running again covid or no covid. The disease could be tolerated since it has very low fatality rates among productive young people and largely kills seniors that are already unwell. China is already overpopulated and reducing the number of unproductive seniors might have been seen as a net positive.

Besides, the covid fatality rate is so low that even if the entire population eventually contracts covid, the excess deaths could be covered up by faking the public health figures. The WHO would never question what China told them.

Here in the United States, the CDC reports that what they call their best estimate of the Infection Fatality Ratio, the fraction of people infected who die, is

0-19 years old - 1/33,333 (0.003%) (worst case projection 0.01%)
20-49 years oid - 1/5,000 (0.02%) (worst case projection 0.03%)
50-69 years old - 1/200 (0.5%) (worst case projection 1%)
70+ years old - 1/18 (5.4%) (worst case projection 9.3%) I expect that the majority of these are people with other life-threatening conditions that might have killed them anyway, like heart disease or COPD.

These kind of numbers might be somewhat higher in China due to lower health standards, lots of smoking and so on. But it isn't something that China can't tolerate or cover up.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nco...arios.html

Of course, once China has decided to sweep it all under the rug so as to revive their economy, it's in their interest that their rivals in the US and Europe remain disrupted and locked down for as long as possible, to increase China's competitive advantage. It probably isn't an accident that the most pro-China politicians in the West are also the most pro-lockdown.

[Zinjanthropos]

China is already overpopulated and reducing the number of unproductive seniors might have been seen as a net positive.

I think you (body) are the property of the state in China. Make sure the makeup and perfumes you buy from Chinese companies are COVID free.  

[Syne]

It probably isn't an accident that the most pro-China politicians in the West are also the most pro-lockdown.

This. Leftists so want to the authoritarian power that the CCP has.

[confused2]

To head off being accused of trying to make a 'leftist' political point-
I'm in favour of locking up the old folks and letting the rest get on with it.

It probably isn't an accident that the most pro-China politicians in the West are also the most pro-lockdown.

A skim over the data at https://epidemic-stats.com/ suggests countries with 'free' healthcare systems are also the ones with the highest death rate.

When healthcare is free (eg the UK) it is seen as a right so when grandma starts gasping for air you automatically call an ambulance and grandma gets taken to hospital. If you have to pay for grandma to go to hospital you might well think she (you) would be much happier if she was cared for at home. For various reasons free healthcare systems are more likely to be overwhelmed by an epidemic than than pay to stay healthcare. An overwhelmed free healthcare service is likely to be seen as a national and political embarrassment (hence lockdowns) whereas a pay to stay system can justifiably claim 'You got what you paid for.'.

Back to to lockdowns and Sinophilia -
Obviously giving free healthcare to the great unwashed is 'lefty' and you could argue (I wouldn't) that lefty=Sinophile hence Sinophiles have more lockdowns. Seems a bit tenuous to me.

[Zinjanthropos]

To head off being accused of trying to make a 'leftist' political point-
I'm in favour of locking up the old folks and letting the rest get on with it.

It probably isn't an accident that the most pro-China politicians in the West are also the most pro-lockdown.

A skim over the data at https://epidemic-stats.com/ suggests countries with 'free' healthcare systems are also the ones with the highest death rate. 

When healthcare is free (eg the UK) it is seen as a right so when grandma starts gasping for air you automatically call an ambulance and grandma gets taken to hospital. If you have to pay for grandma to go to hospital you might well think she (you) would be much happier if she was cared for at home. For various reasons free healthcare systems are more likely to be overwhelmed by an epidemic than than pay to stay healthcare. An overwhelmed free healthcare service is likely to be seen as a national and political embarrassment (hence lockdowns) whereas a pay to stay system can justifiably claim 'You got what you paid for.'.

Back to to lockdowns and Sinophilia -
Obviously giving free healthcare to the great unwashed is 'lefty' and you could argue (I wouldn't) that lefty=Sinophile hence Sinophiles have more lockdowns. Seems a bit tenuous to me.

I don’t consider it free. There’s a premium, like insurance, most folks have to pay here on top of all other taxes, although if you’re low income it probably is more free. Use it or lose it might be the apropos phrase so I get your point....our hospitals are overwhelmed right now. 

I don’t think Canada’s death rate is any worse than other places.

[confused2]

I don’t think Canada’s death rate is any worse than other places.

https://epidemic-stats.com/ think it's 2.7% right up with the UK and the other bad boys. (only 1.7% in the US).