Where we are born is only a matter of luck

[Syne]

The thing about Iran is that is was a modern, secular country until 1979, when radical Islamists took over the government. Like all such oppressive governments, they killed all dissenters in the 80s. And historically, freedom only seems to reign where people are willing to die for it en masse.

[Zinjanthropos]

The thing about Iran is that is was a modern, secular country until 1979, when radical Islamists took over the government. Like all such oppressive governments, they killed all dissenters in the 80s. And historically, freedom only seems to reign where people are willing to die for it en masse.

Sentimentally, it seems as if the USA is being made out to be the bad guy here. Or maybe it’s just anti-Trump. There’s a list of shithole countries that have done or are committing worse offences. This Iranian general may be a hero to some Iranian men (rarely if ever see women protesting in the streets) but he’s out to kill people FFS. No angel in my eyes, just a useless murdering prick. IMHO a mass murderer, only with a lot more freedom of movement and power, the epitome of madness and insanity. One less psycho to worry about.

[C C]

Sentimentally, it seems as if the USA is being made out to be the bad guy here. Or maybe it’s just anti-Trump. There’s a list of shithole countries that have done or are committing worse offences. This Iranian general may be a hero to some Iranian men (rarely if ever see women protesting in the streets) but he’s out to kill people FFS. No angel in my eyes, just a useless murdering prick. IMHO a mass murderer, only with a lot more freedom of movement and power, the epitome of madness and insanity. One less psycho to worry about.

From a subjective nationalist standpoint, it's understandable why Iranian citizens worship the guy and mourn his death. But why Hollywood celebrities want to dote over him, wail grief, apologize for the incident and downright grovel "please don't harm us" seems excessive even in light of the deep hatred of Trump.

[Leigha]

Sentimentally, it seems as if the USA is being made out to be the bad guy here. Or maybe it’s just anti-Trump. There’s a list of shithole countries that have done or are committing worse offences. This Iranian general may be a hero to some Iranian men (rarely if ever see women protesting in the streets) but he’s out to kill people FFS. No angel in my eyes, just a useless murdering prick. IMHO a mass murderer, only with a lot more freedom of movement and power, the epitome of madness and insanity. One less psycho to worry about.

From a subjective nationalist standpoint, it's understandable why Iranian citizens worship the guy and mourn his death. But why Hollywood celebrities want to dote over him, wail grief, apologize for the incident and downright grovel "please don't us" seems excessive even in light of the deep hatred of Trump.

Because they think they're ''woke.'' 

---

[...] What are your thoughts?

Well, here's the way I view it. (For today, anyway. )

"Luck" is to suggest that I have options. But I require everything responsible for my existence and identity. Not just location.

I can only be me via the prior history, geographical coordinates, and specific meetings of people (like my parents) that were responsible for bringing me into existence and all the many later circumstances bringing about the development of this body and mind (personal memories, interests, tendencies, etc).

I reside within this possibility because it is not a possibility. It is necessary. It is the only extended sequence of conditions where this precise series of body states can exist with this precise identity.

If there were other versions of me in a multiverse (especially those who weren't "lucky" -- like say got kidnapped after birth and raised in Syria), then they're in those parallel worlds because they are not me. They wouldn't have my exact history and identity even if there were only minor differences with some. That I'm not conscious of their worlds (even as recalled memories) and they're not conscious of mine validates we would not be the same.

Or to put another way: I can't exist by being somebody else, which even a variation of me would be. I can only be this person. And the latter requires everything that made it what it is for better or worse (location very much a key factor there).

This is a great way of looking at it all, CC. I guess in my view, I see my ''luck'' having come from others paving the way for me to even have this ''fate.'' Perhaps it wasn't fate at all, then. My family of origin, the wars others have fought in the past 100 years, the civil rights movements where blood was shed, the women who came before us who helped me to have rights that they didn't have, etc. 

Since I didn't have to struggle as they did, I see myself as ''lucky.''

[Zinjanthropos]

Since I didn't have to struggle as they did, I see myself as ''lucky.''

If we use the green-eyed 12 year Afghan girl from the NG cover as an example....would she have been more lucky if born an American? If luck means making a pile of dough from natural beauty and celebrity then I think yah, it was bad luck she wasn't. She hasn't lived a glamorous life from what I've been reading. She's somehow(luck) world famous but at the same time unlucky to not been born American. In that respect, I think that you Wegs, were luckier.

[Leigha]

Since I didn't have to struggle as they did, I see myself as ''lucky.''

If we use the green-eyed 12 year Afghan girl from the NG cover as an example....would she have been more lucky if born an American? If luck means making a pile of dough from natural beauty and celebrity then I think yah, it was bad luck she wasn't. She hasn't lived a glamorous life from what I've been reading. She's somehow(luck) world famous but at the same time unlucky to not been born American. In that respect, I think that you Wegs, were luckier.

Good points. I should have clarified, but when I use the word ''luck'' in this context, I'm speaking of freedom. As a woman, I'm not oppressed in the US. This isn't to say there exists no sexism or misogyny, there does. But, I feel quite fortunate to have my voice heard and have it matter in America. 

As a believer, I live in a country where I have religious freedom. (again, there are still problem areas within certain sectors) There are educational freedoms, and so on. But, when compared to other countries, I'm ''lucky'' in terms of certain freedoms, that simply don't exist at all in some other countries.

Perhaps it's not geography really, that has caused me to feel this way, rather it's the people who came before me who have paved the way for me (and others) to live a life with such freedoms. America 150 years ago, didn't really seem like a ''lucky'' place to live for women or minorities. But, you don't know what you don't know, so maybe I'm wrong to judge it from my vantage point.

[RainbowUnicorn]

It's interesting that you bring up Iran, Z. I'm part Iranian from my father's side and I wouldn't feel ''lucky,'' living in that region right now. By some cosmic twist of fate however, I could have easily been born and raised there. It might not be popular to say, but as a woman especially, there's no way I'd feel fortunate to live in a country that lives under an oppressive, tyrannical government. (knowing what I know, now)

The way women are treated there, I'd live a far different life than I do now. But, maybe, if I were born in the middle east, I'd have a different mindset. I'd not understand what an American lifestyle really is, I'd likely be fed propaganda that would teach me to hate America. So, maybe I would feel ''fortunate,'' since what we don't know, doesn't hurt us.

thats the thing about mental freedom

you can have someone trapped inside a mind-set/psychiatric condition inside a liberal opulent world or a religious fascist state dictatorship like Iran or Pakistan

im sure there are many modern thinking middle class people in both countrys whos positions of power and wealth afford them the ability to live above the common suffering of mental control & enslavement.
they probably consider themselves lucky but probably have a lower value on human life so they think it is acceptable to have the poorer classes used as cannon fodder to service their ideas of class system that support the current system.
(this is a fairly common human aspect among most social systems)

the Iranian/part-there-of lolz women i have met have all been smoking hot(very very attractive)


p.s
how does slavery effect these concepts of mental freedom as a human right to the people ?
does the aspect of the right to be free to think what you like, ... something that is still completely unacceptable to such society's and leaders ?

freedom of thought seems to be illegal in those countrys.
iran
pakistan
north korea
Afghanistan
several african countrys
(the ones i can think of off hand, mianmar... a couple of others)
Bahrain ?

all these countrys make freedom of thought illegal

---

But, you don't know what you don't know, so maybe I'm wrong to judge it from my vantage point.

true
but if i am controlling what you dont know then i am making myself your god
and so in doing, i am affording you the value of human life that i choose.

that is part of the false religion that most of those countrys project
they say the state or their god is the top priority yet they always make themselves to be the ones who hold other peoples lifes in their own judgement.
they take other peoples life's while playing god.

if they valued life they would not go around taking life and playing god with the supposed sanctity of life that only a God can give or take.

thier hypocrisy to the value they place on life and the right to live is clearly the poison which they are spreading.

[Syne]

Sentimentally, it seems as if the USA is being made out to be the bad guy here. Or maybe it’s just anti-Trump.

Yeah, just Trump-hatred driving people to side with terrorist murderers. There's good reason it's called Trump derangement syndrome.

[Zinjanthropos]

Maybe there’s an unwritten rule..... if your country is attacked ( ie Twin towers) then no oneelse is going to blame or fight you if there ‘s retaliation but single out some guy and it’s world war. Just seems like it, not sure if there’s any truth in it.

[RainbowUnicorn]

Maybe there’s an unwritten rule..... if your country is attacked ( ie Twin towers) then no oneelse is going to blame or fight you if there ‘s retaliation but single out some guy and it’s world war. Just seems like it, not sure if there’s any truth in it.

there is considerable american citizen opposing opinions around if the usa should be in iraq at all

note the cutting of international aid.

if this drives public opinion to demand the usa pull out of iraq, then that is probably a win for the usa leadership even tough it will be a massive loss for the iraqi democracy.

once the usa pull out the crazies will target(more freely) the contractors building schools power stations and water systems

do the Iraqi people want all international aid to be stopped and all the people re-building their country to leave ?


it will be interesting to see which side wins the popular vote in iraq
maybe iraq doesn't need any foreign aid now it has Iran as its business partner.