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Is fixing the climate incompatible with American ideals?

#1
C C Offline
http://nautil.us/issue/62/systems/is-fix...can-ideals

EXCERPT: ...The reason for this, the foundation for the problem, is the philosophical ground on which American institutions of governance are built. By this, I’m referring to the notion of God-given and inalienable rights, cited by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence but taken by Jefferson from the philosophical work of John Locke’s Two Treatises. The trouble with Locke is that his thinking came well in advance of ideas about the changing nature of nature itself and of its limits. To provide a major example, Locke knew nothing of the idea of extinction, an idea that would not arrive in the world of ideas until Georges Cuvier established it in 1800. For Locke, nature was a constant, given by God. By the time Cuvier issued his caveat—and he did not think of it quite that way—the major works of classical liberalism were written, and nations—the United States, France—were promising to guarantee certain rights of property and certain liberties, no matter what nature might say about the matter.

This is just where we still remain. Virtually all policy designed to forestall the consequences of climate change threatens, in some way, certain liberties and rights to property that are the bedrock of American political culture (never mind the fact that the consequences, unforestalled, deny whole island nations and people living near sea level of their rights and property). And so, from a certain point of view, it is rational to stand against any policy that limits liberty and confiscates property or diminishes its value. Garrett Hardin understood this quite well and explained it in his article “The Tragedy of the Commons.”

[...] To a climate change activist, the idea that higher productivity is rational is the problem, and it is a problem in perpetuity so long as our political and governmental institutions are grounded in an understanding of nature consistent with Locke, and with the absolute time and space of Isaac Newton, but inconsistent with a conception of natural change, best exemplified by Darwin’s On the Origin of Species. That is, our political institutions were given form in a time when nature was considered rather static and inexhaustible. We might—or our progeny might—reconstitute our political entities on a new, more Darwinian basis. But until that happens, the battle is to persuade majorities in democratic societies that their interests are best served by giving up a little Newton and accepting a little Darwin....

MORE: http://nautil.us/issue/62/systems/is-fix...can-ideals
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#2
Magical Realist Offline
A major obstruction to thinking about problems on a global level is this persistent delusion known as nationalism---that we all have these isolated collective identities defined historically and geographically as the nation we are members of. I have contemplated the fate of this delusion many times while observing photos of the earth from space. The non-existence of borders. The continuity of the land masses and the oceans without any mapped over manmade labels. If we are to accept the truth of climate change, we have to free ourselves from the myopia of national self-interest. What is in our interest is also in the interest of all nations, on the global level. The pollutants we spue into our atmosphere affect the entire planet, not just us. We are responsible for our cumulative effects on the earth, which is one cohesive self-balancing system that includes us all.


[Image: 6049973495_b97aec7ee6_b.jpg]
[Image: 6049973495_b97aec7ee6_b.jpg]

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#4
Yazata Offline
This thread doesn't really have anything to do with science, it's a not-so-veiled attack on "American ideals". In this case, the founding principle of the nation itself, the idea that human beings have inalienable rights that aren't simply the gift of (in the 18th century) the monarch or (today) the state.

Presumably, in order to fight the (largely speculative, since we can't directly observe or run experiments on the future) future threat of global warming (NASA's own figures only show a 1.6 degree F [0.9 degree C] increase in average global temperatures so far, since the 19th century), in this guy's view the United States needs to turn away from its ideal of human liberty.

Presumably that would enable a morally-righteous left-authoritarian government in Washington DC to control individual Americans' behavior so as to "Save the Planet". (Never mind that China is the world's biggest polluter, India is up there and they are industrializing like crazy. Historically, pollution and greenhouse gas emissions are associated with early industrialization. (Remember the 19th century London "fogs"? Well, look at China today.) Yet, it's the United States that supposedly needs to abandon its deepest ideals.

The trouble for the left with that prescription is that the whole post-60's superstructure of feminist, LBGTQ (have I left any letters out?), racial equality and all the other group rights that the left has constructed atop the original ideal of individual human rights will collapse too.
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#5
Syne Offline
Yeah, do leftists think China shares our values of inalienable human rights? Nope. But do they really care about China? Nope, because this nonsense is all about a leftist power grab in the US.
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#6
RainbowUnicorn Offline
23% of the population voted in the current US government.

soo 77% didnt vote for them

minority government in a democratic oligarchy.

23% who voted against climate science
24% who voted democrat(& lost the election)
53% who didnt vote
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#7
Syne Offline
The US is not a democracy (nowhere mentioned in the constitution), it's a republic.
Voter apathy is their own responsibility, and very few people actually voted against climate science. Many did vote against climate fear mongers seeking autocratic power.
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#8
C C Offline
(Jul 15, 2018 05:45 PM)Yazata Wrote: This thread doesn't really have anything to do with science,


It's in "history" and the culture subsection, actually.

Quote:[...] LBGTQ (have I left any letters out?) [...]


Just call it A-Z or AZ parade, so that all future additions are already accommodated.

Like mechanosexuality getting its promotion from being classed today as a mere paraphilia. And zoosexual orientation capping off the eventual end of the dis-arranged alphabet sequence. Which will probably be subsumed under more generic xenosexual once underpersons like a human / feline hybrid C'Mell come along; as well outright space-alien eros in the decades after first contact. Doubtless there could also be refinements in ab-sexuality and ab-gender ("away from sexuality", "away from gender") which currently we can't imagine even being possible.

With respect to Cordwainer Smith and his human chimeras (interstellar version of "Island of Dr Moreau"?), I couldn't help but notice that he may have vaguely anticipated an aspect of postmodern administration. If one of the running themes which the Instrumentality of Mankind conceptually embraced was "The Instrumentality attempts to revive old cultures and languages in a process known as the Rediscovery of Man." The latter was without crypto-Marxist and para-Marxist social justice influences, though.

~
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