Suicide data and statistics

#11
Magical Realist Offline
(Nov 26, 2022 12:03 AM)Syne Wrote:
(Nov 25, 2022 10:43 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: The Genetics of Mental Disorder
https://www.news-medical.net/health/The-...order.aspx

Excuses to keeps people on drugs or for those people to avoid any responsibility for their own condition. The modern-day "the devil made me do it."

No...just the evidence-based observation that mental illness isn't a character flaw or anybody's fault.
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#12
Syne Offline
(Nov 26, 2022 12:10 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:
(Nov 26, 2022 12:03 AM)Syne Wrote: Excuses to keeps people on drugs or for those people to avoid any responsibility for their own condition. The modern-day "the devil made me do it."

No...just the evidence-based observation that mental illness isn't a character flaw or anybody's fault.

There is no such objective evidence. Again, that's either a lie to sell drugs (like the recently admitted lie about chemical imbalances in the brain) or a self-soothing self-deception (to avoid any hint of personal responsibility*). Any such claim is purely subjective and cannot be objectively distinguished from behavior altering brain structure, through neuroplasticity, and genetics, through epigenetics.


*Trauma legitimately happens to people, but it's not about who to blame. Blame cripples any recovery. It's about responsibility. Only the individual can be responsible for how they react to and let trauma effect their life. That is what they inflict upon themselves.
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#13
Magical Realist Offline
Quote:Trauma legitimately happens to people, but it's not about who to blame. Blame cripples any recovery. It's about responsibility. Only the individual can be responsible for how they react to and let trauma effect their life. That is what they inflict upon themselves.

That's why we call it post traumatic stress disorder, which is its own form of mental illness separate from other more genetic forms like depressive disorder, bipolarism, schizophrenia, and anxiety disorders. The evidence is clear, as I've already posted many times here, that these disorders have strong genetic components and are effectively treated with medications and therapy. PTSD is also effectively treated with meds and therapy:

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/what...s-disorder
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#14
Syne Offline
(Nov 26, 2022 01:51 AM)Magical Realist Wrote:
Quote:Trauma legitimately happens to people, but it's not about who to blame. Blame cripples any recovery. It's about responsibility. Only the individual can be responsible for how they react to and let trauma effect their life. That is what they inflict upon themselves.

That's why we call it post traumatic stress disorder, which is its own form of mental illness separate from other more genetic forms like depressive disorder, bipolarism, schizophrenia, and anxiety disorders. The evidence is clear, as I've already posted many times here, that these disorders have strong genetic components and are effectively treated with medications and therapy. PTSD is also effectively treated with meds and therapy.

You haven't posted anything but what vaguely reassures you that you can't do anything to help your own mental condition.
Trauma does not only cause PTSD, it's also a catalyst for a whole host of mental disorders. PTSD is just a very acute reaction to conscious trauma. Suppressed, unconscious traumas are more likely to lead to more chronic conditions.

But you're free to continue to use meds and genetic excuses as a crutch, in lieu of developing better coping mechanisms. Some people just don't have the will to overcome their own self-inflicted troubles. People will play any game, even with themselves, in lieu of having no game at all. They don't have too many problems, they have too few.
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#15
Zinjanthropos Offline
Slight deviation….

Is it suicidal to engage in an action that puts your life at risk? Occupation, daredevilry, bad habits and maybe something like breaking into NRA Headquarters are a few of many ways to get yourself killed. How close is risking one’s own life to attempted or actual suicide?

Earning a Darwin Award has to be pretty close to a suicidal event. If I find some unexplored ordnance and start whacking it with a hammer, is it suicide should it go boom? Depressed or dumb, you could end up knocking yourself off, so are they both mental?

Should death by risk taking be included in the stats?
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#16
Magical Realist Offline
(Nov 26, 2022 02:03 AM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Slight deviation….

Is it suicidal to engage in an action that puts your life at risk? Occupation, daredevilry, bad habits and maybe something like breaking into NRA Headquarters are a few of many ways to get yourself killed. How close is risking one’s own life to attempted or actual suicide?

Earning a Darwin Award has to be pretty close to a suicidal event. If I find some unexplored ordnance and start whacking it with a hammer, is it suicide should it go boom? Depressed or dumb, you could end up knocking yourself off, so are they both mental?

Should death by risk taking be included in the stats?

I don't think so. Death by stupidity isn't suicidal since it lacks the conscious intent to kill oneself. I would say that has to be present for it to be an suicidal attempt.

Quote:You haven't posted anything but what vaguely reassures you that you can't do anything to help your own mental condition.

I utilize meds and relaxation techniques along with monthly visits with a mental health worker to help myself. But I also realize that I can't pull myself up by my own bootstraps. Mental health is all about reaching out to others for help. There is no way you can overcome a condition thru sheer willpower. That is an old myth whose time has come and gone. It smacks of the protestant work ethic--work harder at being happy, which is a lie. We have to accept the things we can't change in order to grow beyond them.
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#17
Zinjanthropos Offline
My SIL’s death was not on her first try. Remember my bro telling me how hard it is to live with someone suicidal. Means every other time she tried, she survived. How many suicides are attempts that went wrong when the real reason was to draw attention to their plight or maybe a scream for help?

The stats don’t tell the whole story is all I’m suggesting. IMHO, attempts far outnumber successes and not everyone who attempts keeps trying until they die.
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#18
Syne Offline
(Nov 26, 2022 02:14 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: I don't think so. Death by stupidity isn't suicidal since it lacks the conscious intent to kill oneself. I would say that has to be present for it to be an suicidal attempt.
Agreed.
There are self-destructive behaviors that are perhaps a degree of suicidality, but they tend to be more like smoking, substance abuse, etc., rather than risk taking.
Risks that are calculated or just out of ignorance wouldn't qualify.

Quote:
Quote:You haven't posted anything but what vaguely reassures you that you can't do anything to help your own mental condition.

I utilize meds and relaxation techniques along with monthly visits with a mental health worker to help myself. But I also realize that I can't pull myself up by my own bootstraps. Mental health is all about reaching out to others for help. There is no way you can overcome a condition thru sheer willpower. That is an old myth whose time has come and gone. It smacks of the protestant work ethic--work harder at being happy, which is a lie. We have to accept the things we can't change in order to grow beyond them.

I use to suffer from depression. I haven't in decades, without any drugs, counseling, etc.. Mental health is all about your outlook, something that is eminently changeable. Some people can and do overcome through will alone. I also quit drugs using the methods of Rational Recovery, before I even knew that was a thing and without any help or resources (before the internet). I just did it. Oh, and I quit smoking cold turkey. Now, I'm fine if that makes me somehow exceptional, and maybe most people are completely incapable of doing likewise. But I believe people are more similar than they are different. They're just trapped by the inner narrative they keep telling themselves.
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