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The strange glow of warp speed acceleration + "Machine scientists" distill raw data

#1
C C Offline
Physicists found a way to trigger the strange glow of warp speed acceleration
https://www.sciencealert.com/physicists-...warp-speed

INTRO: Every time you take a step, space itself glows with a soft warmth. Called the Fulling–Davies–Unruh effect (or sometimes just Unruh effect if you're pushed for time), this eerie glow of radiation emerging from the vacuum is akin to the mysterious Hawking radiation that's thought to surround black holes.

Only in this case, it's the product of acceleration rather than gravity Can't feel it? There's a good reason for that. You'd need to move at an impossible speed to sense even the weakest of Unruh rays.

For now, the effect remains a purely theoretical phenomenon, far beyond our ability to measure. But that could soon change, following a discovery by researchers from the University of Waterloo in Canada and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)... (MORE - details)


Powerful ‘machine scientists’ distill the laws of physics from raw data
https://www.quantamagazine.org/machine-s...-20220510/

EXCERPTS: . . . The researchers hadn’t spotted the crucial pattern in their data themselves. Rather, an unpublished invention of theirs — a digital assistant they called the “machine scientist” — had handed it to them. When writing up the result, Guimerà recalls thinking, “We can’t just say we fed it to an algorithm and this is the answer. No reviewer is going to accept that.”

[...] Four years later, this awkward situation is quickly becoming an accepted method of scientific discovery. Sales-Pardo and Guimerà are among a handful of researchers developing the latest generation of tools capable of a process known as symbolic regression.

Symbolic regression algorithms are distinct from deep neural networks, the famous artificial intelligence algorithms that may take in thousands of pixels, let them percolate through a labyrinth of millions of nodes, and output the word “dog” through opaque mechanisms. Symbolic regression similarly identifies relationships in complicated data sets, but it reports the findings in a format human researchers can understand: a short equation.

These algorithms resemble supercharged versions of Excel’s curve-fitting function, except they look not just for lines or parabolas to fit a set of data points, but billions of formulas of all sorts. In this way, the machine scientist could give the humans insight into why cells divide, whereas a neural network could only predict when they do.

Researchers have tinkered with such machine scientists for decades, carefully coaxing them into rediscovering textbook laws of nature from crisp data sets arranged to make the patterns pop out. But in recent years the algorithms have grown mature enough to ferret out undiscovered relationships in real data — from how turbulence affects the atmosphere to how dark matter clusters.

“No doubt about it,” said Hod Lipson, a roboticist at Columbia University who jump-started the study of symbolic regression 13 years ago. “The whole field is moving forward.”

Occasionally physicists arrive at grand truths through pure reasoning, as when Albert Einstein intuited the pliability of space and time by imagining a light beam from another light beam’s perspective. More often, though, theories are born from marathon data-crunching sessions.

After the 16th-century astronomer Tycho Brahe passed away, Johannes Kepler got his hands on the celestial observations in Brahe’s notebooks. It took Kepler four years to determine that Mars traces an ellipse through the sky rather than the dozens of other egglike shapes he considered. He followed up this “first law” with two more relationships uncovered through brute-force calculations. These regularities would later point Isaac Newton toward his law of universal gravitation.

The goal of symbolic regression is to speed up such Keplerian trial and error, scanning the countless ways of linking variables with basic mathematical operations to find the equation that most accurately predicts a system’s behavior.

[...] Of the growing band of machine scientists (another notable example is “AI Feynman,” created by Max Tegmark and Silviu-Marian Udrescu, physicists at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology), human researchers say the more the merrier. “We really need all these techniques,” Kutz said. “There’s not a single one that’s a magic bullet.”

Kutz believes machine scientists are bringing the field to the cusp of what he calls “GoPro physics,” where researchers will simply point a camera at an event and get back an equation capturing the essence of what’s going on. (Current algorithms still need humans to feed them a laundry list of potentially relevant variables like positions and angles.)

That’s what Lipson has been working on lately. In a December preprint, he and his collaborators described a procedure in which they first trained a deep neural network to take in a few frames of a video and predict the next few frames. The team then reduced how many variables the neural network was allowed to use until its predictions started to fail.

The algorithm was able to figure out how many variables were needed to model both simple systems like a pendulum and complicated setups like the flickering of a campfire — tongues of flames with no obvious variables to track.

“We don’t have names for them,” Lipson said. “They’re like the flaminess of the flame.” (MORE - missing details)
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#2
Kornee Offline
(May 11, 2022 08:54 PM)C C Wrote: Physicists found a way to trigger the strange glow of warp speed acceleration
https://www.sciencealert.com/physicists-...warp-speed

INTRO: Every time you take a step, space itself glows with a soft warmth. Called the Fulling–Davies–Unruh effect (or sometimes just Unruh effect if you're pushed for time), this eerie glow of radiation emerging from the vacuum is akin to the mysterious Hawking radiation that's thought to surround black holes.

Only in this case, it's the product of acceleration rather than gravity Can't feel it? There's a good reason for that. You'd need to move at an impossible speed to sense even the weakest of Unruh rays.

For now, the effect remains a purely theoretical phenomenon, far beyond our ability to measure. But that could soon change, following a discovery by researchers from the University of Waterloo in Canada and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)... (MORE - details)

It's sad how entrenched and impervious to simple logic the entire academic sub-industry of supposed 'Hawking radiation' and closely related 'Rindler temperature' has become.
Both rely on the existence of 'horizons'; BH 'horizon' in the gravitational case, and a Rindler 'horizon' in the accelerated observer in flat spacetime case.
Once again, a straightforward rigorous treatment of 'Einstein's Elevator' leaves no room for either:
https://arxiv.org/abs/1606.01417 Appendix A
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#3
confused2 Offline
From Kornee's link above
https://arxiv.org/abs/1606.01417 (appendix A)

My italics
Quote:By the principle of equivalence an elevator at rest in an equivalent gravitational field, would have to produce the same frequency shift gravitationally. In this elevator, the change of (dimensionless) gravitational potential of the ceiling relative to the floor is, of course, u(z = L) = gL/c^2.

Not only is it non-obvious that the change of gravitational potential is as he claims - I suspect his claim is actually wrong.
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#4
Kornee Offline
(May 25, 2022 12:23 PM)confused2 Wrote: From Kornee's link above
https://arxiv.org/abs/1606.01417 (appendix A)

My italics
Quote:By the principle of equivalence an elevator at rest in an equivalent gravitational field, would have to produce the same frequency shift gravitationally. In this elevator, the change of (dimensionless) gravitational potential of the ceiling relative to the floor is, of course, u(z = L) = gL/c^2.

Not only is it non-obvious that the change of gravitational potential is as he claims - I suspect his claim is actually wrong.
You suspect? Please provide something far more concrete than that. The analysis is exact (caveat below). The math is not difficult nor is the conceptualization.

My one misgiving, as of a few years back now, is that applicability to gravitational case strictly applies only as a limiting case. I will not elaborate until after you explain precisely where and why you 'suspect' the change in (equivalent) gravitational potential (accelerating elevator analysis) there is wrong.

PS: Beginning with slide 8 and ending at slide 19, the same result is methodically derived via a slightly different 'k-calculus' route here:
https://www.powershow.com/view/1bbc8-Zjh...esentation
Feel free to 'poke holes in it' - if you think you can!
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#5
confused2 Offline
(May 25, 2022 01:23 PM)Kornee Wrote:
(May 25, 2022 12:23 PM)confused2 Wrote: From Kornee's link above
https://arxiv.org/abs/1606.01417 (appendix A)

My italics
Quote:By the principle of equivalence an elevator at rest in an equivalent gravitational field, would have to produce the same frequency shift gravitationally. In this elevator, the change of (dimensionless) gravitational potential of the ceiling relative to the floor is, of course, u(z = L) = gL/c^2.

Not only is it non-obvious that the change of gravitational potential is as he claims - I suspect his claim is actually wrong.
You suspect? Please provide something far more concrete than that. The analysis is exact (caveat below). The math is not difficult nor is the conceptualization.

My one misgiving, as of a few years back now, is that applicability to gravitational case strictly applies only as a limiting case. I will not elaborate until after you explain precisely where and why you 'suspect' the change in (equivalent) gravitational potential (accelerating elevator analysis) there is wrong.

PS: Beginning with slide 8 and ending at slide 19, the same result is methodically derived via a slightly different 'k-calculus' route here:
https://www.powershow.com/view/1bbc8-Zjh...esentation
Feel free to 'poke holes in it' - if you think you can!

Why I suspect what I suspect..
I was saving GR for my old age - now I'm saving it for my older old age. So some SR follows..

Let the elevator be 'tall' (for conceptual convenience).
g at the top, g at the bottom.
clock at the bottom, clock at the top
.
clock at the top runs faster than the clock at the bottom by a factor of β
g (m/s^2) between top and bottom differs by a factor of 1/β^2 however you try to play it.

I've seen it done (but can't repeat it myself) .. I'm 'fairly sure' this is also what you get when you accelerate the elevator.

PS: Until I have GR (if ever) I have nothing to compare Yilmaz with and GR (Einstein) will be my first port of call. I remain 'fairly sure' your appendix A (Yilmaz or not?) is fundamentally flawed.

A bit of googling suggests the uniform gravitational field used to 'derive' the equivalence principle might actually be the Rindler metric - leaving me to wonder if Yilmaz hasn't thrown away the baby at a rather early stage.
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#6
Kornee Offline
Your essentially aesthetic choice of Einstein over Yilmaz isn't based on anything close to rigorous. Fact is, as proven in the two articles linked to earlier, it's GR that is based on a first-order approximation of the exact treatment according to Einstein's own EP. The result being absurdities such as purported 'reversal of time and space roles inside a 'BH'. Or even that time 'runs backwards' in that fantasy land.

I am now fairly satisfied the one defect in Yilmaz/Alley/Robertson etc. finding is that it doesn't properly incorporate the contribution from gravitational field energy density. Which is necessarily entirely absent in the flat spacetime uniformly accelerated elevator scenario. However that imo defect is of no comfort whatsoever for GR fans. Since GR by construction of EFEs does not allow any energy density in a gravitational field!
But that fact is inconsistently applied and there is a widespread fudging/pretence that it can/has been be 'successfully incorporated'. BS.

My own independent analysis based on a quite different scenario, has shown GR's anisotropic Schwarzschild metric is necessarily wrong and only a truly spatially isotropic metric can be self-consistent. The so-called 'isotropic form' of SM sometimes used is a fake one-point 'transformation'.
Genuine spatial isotropy is one key feature of the Yilmaz exponential metric.
But, just like for the far more important and dangerous ideological/political situations that prevail, herd mentality rules supreme.
Folks simply 'go with the strength', because 'all those experts can't be wrong'. Sad situation.
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#7
confused2 Offline
Any thought on g_bottom != g_top ?
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#8
Kornee Offline
Maybe you are vaguely recalling reading arguments elsewhere about what the assumed constraints are in 'uniformly accelerated' elevator. One thread thrashing that out:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/ei...es.956944/
At the bottom of that page are links to a host of similar threads. NONE OF THEM INVALIDATE THE FINDINGS LINKED TO EARLIER! It's simply a matter of applying a limiting process to prove that. I will leave that for YOU to work out for yourself, or, failing that, to email around and see if you can find any GR authority willing to try and invalidate the math and logic behind Yilmaz/Alley/Robertson derivation of exponential metric.
If someone claims they can 'prove' GR version is correct, I will proceed to crush their 'proof' with link to my own quite simple analyses.
Only a horizonless, spatially isotropic metric (a la Schwarzschild-like static spherically symmetric case) can be self-consistent.
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#9
confused2 Offline
Kornee Wrote:If someone claims they can 'prove' GR version is correct, I will proceed to crush their 'proof' with link to my own quite simple analyses.
Go for it.
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#10
Kornee Offline
(May 26, 2022 07:38 AM)confused2 Wrote:
Kornee Wrote:If someone claims they can 'prove' GR version is correct, I will proceed to crush their 'proof' with link to my own quite simple analyses.
Go for it.
In case you missed it, there are a few preconditions ahead of MY 'go for it'. YOU first have to 'go for it' as per my last post. It's ok - I realize my need to exercise great patience in this case. Rolleyes

And btw - was I on the mark in #8 concerning your extremely brief #7? Being open and less guarded/non-responsive is imo proper forum decorum.
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