INTRO: We’ve known for some time now our universe is expanding, and in recent years discovered this was happening considerably faster than we’d expected.
Yet despite momentous innovations in telescope and satellite technology, it’s thought much of what’s out there in the cosmos lies beyond our line of sight — beyond the “observable universe”, as it’s called.
It also means we don’t know with any certainty what shape the universe as a whole takes — whether it’s a closed cosmic “doughnut”, a flat plain that stretches out like an endless piece of paper, or a giant sphere in a state of constant expansion.
This has left scientists wondering about the furthest reaches of space and what they may look like. What do they think regarding the fate of the universe? Will it expand forever?
INTRO: We’ve known for some time now our universe is expanding, and in recent years discovered this was happening considerably faster than we’d expected.
Yet despite momentous innovations in telescope and satellite technology, it’s thought much of what’s out there in the cosmos lies beyond our line of sight — beyond the “observable universe”, as it’s called.
It also means we don’t know with any certainty what shape the universe as a whole takes — whether it’s a closed cosmic “doughnut”, a flat plain that stretches out like an endless piece of paper, or a giant sphere in a state of constant expansion.
This has left scientists wondering about the furthest reaches of space and what they may look like. What do they think regarding the fate of the universe? Will it expand forever?
It seems that if space is not infinite, we are asked to cognize a state of being outside of spacetime. OTOH, if it is infinite, we are asked to cognize an incomprehensible infinity. Either alternative is daunting.
Quote:Would you be disappointed to learn that the universe is infinite or finite?
I would prefer finite. I get some sort of queasy vertigo when I think of infinity. All those endlessly repeated lifetimes for myself, some good, and some absolutely miserable. I don't wanna go thru all that. Let everything come to a natural end, there at the sleepy starlit edge of spacetime and hyperspace.
"Is infinite" and "will expand forever" are two very different questions. Expanding doesn't mean infinite space. It doesn't even mean expanding forever.
Nor is there any need for an "outside" of a finite universe...as long as it's expanding. This is because any possible "edge" (not a thing in a metric expansion) is always beyond any observation, as it's receding faster than any light can travel.
Quote:Would you be disappointed to learn that the universe is infinite or finite?
I would prefer finite. I get some sort of queasy vertigo when I think of infinity. All those endlessly repeated lifetimes for myself, some good, and some absolutely miserable. I don't wanna go thru all that. Let everything come to a natural end, there at the sleepy starlit edge of spacetime and hyperspace.
C CAug 13, 2021 06:34 AM (This post was last modified: Aug 13, 2021 06:36 AM by C C.)
(Aug 12, 2021 06:47 PM)Leigha Wrote: Would you be disappointed to learn that the universe is infinite or finite?
Not disappointed, but astonished.
Finite can be fantastically large or impersonate endless "temporarily", as long as it does limit somewhere or wrap around on itself. For that reason, it would be impossible to empirically travel at magic speed for octillions of years in space and still be certain it was infinite, since the termination or the looping could still be yet ahead. Infinity never ceases to be more, but in that crazy kind of way finite does not either, as it tags along.
Now, proving that the cosmos was infinite on paper would be a different matter. But we know how inferences or dogma falling out of data and armchair calculations can sometimes go against the ogre of reality or its future unexpected circumstances.
Just via an astronomer or other expert asserting that there are no restrictions to how big space can be (i.e., by answering yes to infinite), they similarly allow a finite universe to be as gargantuan as it needs to be to "conceal" from our tiny, observable part the indications that it does eventually wrap around on itself via whatever topological form.
For instance, an ant crawling around on a spot on a sphere that is the size of the biggest star probably isn't going to apprehend anything but "flat" in its measurements slash inferences. Or on a torus of whatever magnitude required to obscure its curved and circular cylindrical nature from the ant.
Based upon dimension of a volume, there is no limit to "null" vaccum space.
It doesn't cost anything to produce.
It's quite literally made from nothing and doesn't violate the Law of Conservation of Energy (You don't even have to put effort in)
It continues to exist even when it's occupied by something else (It can't be destroyed only temporarily overwritten)
It's scale isn't just expansive in size but also it's infinitesimal nature which has no bound (other than our capacity as finite beings in observing them)
Time has no meaning to space. (Time is only an observable reference to energy/matter and it's continuity of state.)
As to it's shape?
There is what you'd observe as the natural order to the observable volume of "space" (which includes energy and matter) and then the variant observed by people based upon either their field of expertise or beliefs.
It's not going to be simple, linear or flat, as having intelligent lifeforms in the universe with the capacity to alter things not just by their own perception but their own ingeniuty is going to mean that the universe is a tangled web we weave. The actual topology from my perspective would be closer to origami, involving a sheet that is folded, where each folded layer can occupy positions through other folded layers. (Closer to Smales Horseshoe)
Aug 12, 2021 05:18 PM
(This post was last modified: Aug 12, 2021 05:21 PM by C C.)
![[Image: E0vfLg8.png]](https://i.imgur.com/E0vfLg8.png)
