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Male-Only Bohemian Grove - Printable Version +- Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum (https://www.scivillage.com) +-- Forum: Culture (https://www.scivillage.com/forum-49.html) +--- Forum: Law & Ethics (https://www.scivillage.com/forum-105.html) +--- Thread: Male-Only Bohemian Grove (/thread-7224.html) Pages:
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Male-Only Bohemian Grove - Secular Sanity - Jun 15, 2019 "Last week we learned that there's some new push back from the female-majority Sonoma County Board of Supervisors about providing County services, namely security by sheriff's deputies, to the male-only Bohemian Grove. The annual, three-weekend retreat on a private compound in Monte Rio has been the stuff of legends — and conspiracy theories — for decades, and the event itself dates back to 1878. Planning for the Manhattan Project was said to have taken place there in 1942, and many ex-presidents and other statesmen have made appearances over the decades. But the fact that the Bohemian Club remains a men's club and this retreat doesn't allow women has always rubbed a couple current Sonoma supervisors the wrong way, with good reason. Supervisor Lynda Hopkins penned an open letter to the club's members and guests last week, pointing out, first of all, that all her male predecessors in the District 5 seat have been invited to the Grove, and for the first time, the supervisor of the district in which Monte Rio sits will not be allowed to attend. But Hopkins goes on to rebut a number of popular talking points that have been raised to her regarding the Grove, not the least of which is when members try to downplay the bizarre, ritualistic nature of the activities at Bohemian Grove, which can be a bit more creepy than fratty. To wit: Stop trying to convince me that the Grove is totally normal. It’s not. It’s weird. But here’s the thing — I don’t have a problem with weird. So just be honest with me and admit that it’s weird. Try, “hey, I like to hang out with a bunch of powerful dudes in the redwoods and pee on trees and listen to music and hear famous men speak and burn effigies in weird little tent cities.” Because that sounds like West County Burning Man, and I can understand the appeal. She also says that she's heard too many times that the Grove is just like any other same-sex club retreat, and it's decidedly not. "Other men’s and women’s groups don’t have international leaders flying in on private jets and helicopters to a secretive 2,700-acre compound," she writes. At issue is whether the county's Board of Supervisors will approve a $150,000 contract for the Sheriff's Department to provide gate security for the compound, something it has done for the past 15 years, with the Grove reimbursing the County for their services. Both Hopkins and her colleague Shirlee Zane voted to take a look at legal issues with the contract — namely wording that suggested deputies would have to enforce Grove rules and policies, which include sex discrimination — and the contract has already been revised. They say that they may approve it in order not to deprive the deputies of an extra paycheck, but that doesn't mean it will always be approved in the future." Below, Hopkins' open letter in full. It's an amusing read. https://sfist.com/2019/06/09/sonoma-county-supervisor-to-bohemian-grove/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove RE: Male-Only Bohemian Grove - confused2 - Jun 15, 2019 Quote:Maybe someday you’ll collectively decide that shaking a woman’s hand under the redwood trees isn’t so different from shaking a man’s.Hmm. This is just very difficult. Honestly, how similar is it really? You shake a guy's hand and maybe later you go out and and get drunk together. You shake a woman's hand and go out and get drunk together at your peril. RE: Male-Only Bohemian Grove - Secular Sanity - Jun 16, 2019 (Jun 15, 2019 11:39 PM)confused2 Wrote:Quote:Maybe someday you’ll collectively decide that shaking a woman’s hand under the redwood trees isn’t so different from shaking a man’s.Hmm. This is just very difficult. Honestly, how similar is it really? You shake a guy's hand and maybe later you go out and and get drunk together. You shake a woman's hand and go out and get drunk together at your peril. Is that right, C2? Well, according to President Nixon, same shit-same sex. The Club motto is "Weaving Spiders Come Not Here", which implies that outside concerns and business deals (networking) are to be left outside. When gathered in groups, Bohemians usually adhere to the injunction, although discussion of business often occurs between pairs of members. Important political and business deals have been developed at the Grove. The Grove is particularly famous for a Manhattan Project planning meeting that took place there in September 1942, which subsequently led to the atomic bomb. Those attending this meeting included Ernest Lawrence, J. Robert Oppenheimer, the S-1 Executive Committee heads, such as the presidents of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, along with representatives of Standard Oil and General Electric as well as various military officials. At the time, Oppenheimer was not an S-1 member, although Lawrence and Oppenheimer hosted the meeting. Grove members take particular pride in this event and often relate the story to new attendees. However, other behavior at this famous campground has led to numerous claims and even some parody in popular culture. One such documented example was former president Richard Nixon's comments from a May 13, 1971 recording that: "The Bohemian Grove, which I attend from time to time — it is the most faggy goddamned thing you could ever imagine." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove "But it isn’t just the ratty part of town. The upper class of San Francisco is that way. The Bohemian Grove, which I attend from time to time—is the most faggy goddamn thing that you could ever imagine from that San Francisco crowd that goes in there. It’s just terrible! I mean I won’t shake hands with anybody from San Francisco." RE: Male-Only Bohemian Grove - Syne - Jun 16, 2019 And? If they're rich and can reimburse the county anyway, then it's just a courtesy to spend that money with locals (who will spend it locally, making the county tax revenue) rather than bring in private security...which would enforce their rules and policies without any push back. In January 1981, an administrative law judge issued a decision supporting the practices of the Club, noting that club members at the Grove "urinate in the open without even the use of rudimentary toilet facilities" and that the presence of females would alter club members' behavior. But if female employees don't mind, and more importantly don't have legal standing to sue over it... RE: Male-Only Bohemian Grove - confused2 - Jun 16, 2019 Me Wrote:Hmm. This is just very difficult. Honestly, how similar is it really? You shake a guy's hand and maybe later you go out and and get drunk together. You shake a woman's hand and go out and get drunk together at your peril. SS Wrote:.. Sorry, still not convinced it is the same. "I like your perfume.". "I'm not wearing any perfume.". RE: Male-Only Bohemian Grove - Secular Sanity - Jun 16, 2019 (Jun 16, 2019 01:08 AM)confused2 Wrote: Sorry, still not convinced it is the same. Well, you read too many romance novels. (Jun 16, 2019 01:07 AM)Syne Wrote: And? If they're rich and can reimburse the county anyway, then it's just a courtesy to spend that money with locals (who will spend it locally, making the county tax revenue) rather than bring in private security...which would enforce their rules and policies without any push back. And you don't read. Quote:However, the judge's decision was overruled by the State Fair Employment and Housing Commission, which on October 17, 1981, ordered the Club to begin recruiting and hiring women as employees. RE: Male-Only Bohemian Grove - Syne - Jun 16, 2019 SS is projecting again. ![]() Nowhere in any legal case requiring them to hire female employees does it say that those employees have legal standing to sue over expose to "normal" club member behavior. Pay attention before going off half-cocked, deary. RE: Male-Only Bohemian Grove - C C - Jun 16, 2019 (Jun 15, 2019 11:05 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: . . . But Hopkins goes on to rebut a number of popular talking points that have been raised to her regarding the Grove, not the least of which is when members try to downplay the bizarre, ritualistic nature of the activities at Bohemian Grove, which can be a bit more creepy than fratty. Its incrementally developing eccentric practices, ceremonies, and festive events surely couldn't be any weirder than those of the Hermetic Order of Golden Dawn. But in contrast, the latter did accept women members on an equal basis apparently soon after its establishment in 1887. (I guess the summer encampment[s] of Bohemian Grove began circa 9 years earlier.) Which is to say: Freakish behavior and mystical slash occult rites don't have to exclusively require a fraternal nature to maintain them (as long as such private "clubs" are successfully shielded from elevated sensibilities of the public, whether the puritanical ones of old or the online vigilantism of today). A Masonic scholar was among those who passed down the Cipher Manuscripts which the Order of Golden Dawn was eventually erected upon, and the original founders were apparently Freemasons. "...there was an insistence on women being allowed to participate in the Order in 'perfect equality' with men, which was in contrast to the Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia (S.R.I.A.) and Masonry." Among the most notable female members of the Order were Florence Farr, Annie Horniman, Moina Mathers, and Maud Gonne. The Order of Golden Dawn diverged or broke up eventually into four societies or temples: Isis-Urania Temple, Alpha et Omega, Stella Matutina, and Aleister Crowley's A∴A∴. RE: Male-Only Bohemian Grove - Secular Sanity - Jun 16, 2019 (Jun 16, 2019 03:39 AM)Syne Wrote: SS is projecting again. Yeah, but you left out the part about it being over ruled. There are plenty of jobs that require you to be comfortable with nudity, deary. (Jun 16, 2019 06:08 AM)C C Wrote: Its incrementally developing eccentric practices, ceremonies, and festive events surely couldn't be any weirder than those of the Hermetic Order of Golden Dawn. But in contrast, the latter did accept women members on an equal basis apparently soon after its establishment in 1887. (I guess the summer encampment[s] of Bohemian Grove began circa 9 years earlier.) Which is to say: Freakish behavior and mystical slash occult rites don't have to exclusively require a fraternal nature to maintain them (as long as such private "clubs" are successfully shielded from elevated sensibilities of the public, whether the puritanical ones of old or the online vigilantism of today). That’s interesting, C C. I didn’t know that. So that’s how the whole Crowley thing got started, eh? There’s a lot of weird stuff here. We have a weird Temple of Isis thing, too. This area is notorious for weird crap, e.g., the Peoples Temple, etc. Here’s a list of the plays performed at the grove. You can also scroll through this book with a few pictures and read about the Bohemian Jinks. It’s interesting. When my boys were young, my youngest came running into the house crying because the older boys wouldn’t let him into their secret club. The girls were out front and saw what happened. They knocked on the door and told him that they had a better club. The father of one was contractor and built them a cool little clubhouse. They made him a necklace and dubbed him an honorary member. They had snacks and all sorts of activities for him. That entire summer was full out war. The boys were jealous and tried to recruit him to back into their club but he declined. They spent the entire summer trying to destroy their clubhouse, complete with covert operations and everything. They still talk about it. "Weaving spiders come not here" Screw that! Nothing wrong networking, right? Can you imagine a similar situation, where each summer the most rich and powerful women meet, and choose only a handful of men as honorary members, but with the motto of… "Where webs are weaved" Oh, what a tangled web we weave When first we practise to deceive!
RE: Male-Only Bohemian Grove - confused2 - Jun 16, 2019 SS Wrote:Well, you read too many romance novels. The local charity shops don't have much else. Besides, fact is almost as strange as fiction - think Clinton and Delilah . Our (ex) prime minister and Edwina Currie http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2286008.stm |