+- Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum (https://www.scivillage.com)
+-- Forum: Culture (https://www.scivillage.com/forum-49.html)
+--- Forum: Games, Sports & Hobbies (https://www.scivillage.com/forum-53.html)
+--- Thread: We taught bees a simple language – and they got it (number games) (/thread-7178.html)
We taught bees a simple language – and they got it (number games) - C C - Jun 5, 2019
http://theconversation.com/we-taught-bees-a-simple-number-language-and-they-got-it-117816
EXCERPT: . . . Now our new study shows that honeybees too can learn to match symbols and numerosities, much like we humans do with Arabic and Roman numerals. [...] Language is the ability to learn and use a system of symbolic representations for communication. This includes a capacity to relate signs to abstract information. [...] Around the world humans have developed many different spoken and written languages. However, mathematics in particular is often regarded as a “universal language” since the mathematical concepts that describe values and equations do not depend on cultural or other frameworks. We are interested in the question of whether numerical symbols are truly universal – that is, whether they also work for species that are not human.
[...] Our work has already shown honeybees can learn and apply challenging numerical concepts such as greater vs. lesser items, a quantitative valuation of “zero”, and simple arithmetic. We took this knowledge a step further with our latest research. [...] While no other species besides humans has spontaneously developed a language for numbers, our research suggests an insect can understand and learn basic representation of numbers through symbols. The system we taught to bees was limited in several ways. [...] And yet it is remarkable bees displayed some capacity to understand numbers through symbols. (MORE - details)
RE: We taught bees a simple language – and they got it (number games) - Zinjanthropos - Jun 5, 2019
I don’t know CC, I read this and thought these scientists are claiming what they wanted to get from this experiment using some fancy language of their own. Words like ‘suggests’, ‘was limited’ and ‘some capacity’ are enough to get my guard up. I hope they’re right but they’re not convincing. Seems like a foregone conclusion, the fix is in, keep funding us....IMHO.
RE: We taught bees a simple language – and they got it (number games) - C C - Jun 5, 2019
(Jun 5, 2019 06:57 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: I don’t know CC, I read this and thought these scientists are claiming what they wanted to get from this experiment using some fancy language of their own. Words like ‘suggests’, ‘was limited’ and ‘some capacity’ are enough to get my guard up. I hope they’re right but they’re not convincing. Seems like a foregone conclusion, the fix is in, keep funding us....IMHO.
"Our research is laying the foundations for developing a communication system with very different animal species, and shows the differences between human and non-human animals are not as great in some regards as we might previously have thought."
Much of the spectrum of zoology seems to have a similar subset of research aims these days. Whereas astronomy is going the opposite direction of undermining the old a priori or natural philosophy assumption that Earth, its solar system, and galaxy are average or unremarkable... Some of the life-science fields seem to want to break down the traditional borders of any classic presuppositional stance that humans are exceptional.
RE: We taught bees a simple language – and they got it (number games) - Zinjanthropos - Jun 5, 2019
Quote:Some of the life-science fields seem to want to break down the traditional borders of any classic presuppositional stance that humans are exceptional.
The old “We’re not that exceptional and I can prove it by teaching bees a language” routine. Perhaps if it was the other way around then the point could be made....and haven’t the bees already done that with their tail wiggle?
The whole experiment smells like vinegary nectar to me
