What can depersonalization disorder say about the self? - Printable Version +- Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum (https://www.scivillage.com) +-- Forum: Science (https://www.scivillage.com/forum-61.html) +--- Forum: Anthropology & Psychology (https://www.scivillage.com/forum-86.html) +--- Thread: What can depersonalization disorder say about the self? (/thread-5701.html) Pages:
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What can depersonalization disorder say about the self? - Secular Sanity - Jul 11, 2018 When the Self Slips Individuals living with depersonalisation disorder bring vivid insight to the question of whether the self is an illusion. Quote:Jane suffers from depersonalisation disorder (DPD) – a condition that typically manifests as a profound and distressing feeling of estrangement from one’s own self and body, including one’s experiences, memories and thoughts. Often, depersonalisation is accompanied by derealisation, an alienation from one’s surroundings and environment. Sufferers reportfeeling like zombies, robots or machines, just going through the motions of their own lives. This disorder has been recognised in some form since the late 19th century, and according to studies in the US and UK is estimated to affect between 1 to 2 per cent of the population. But it remains poorly understood. The same thing happened to me. I had tried marijuana once before when I was 17 and didn't like the effect. I was going to wait until I was 70 to try it again, but since it's legal now, and I'm a long way from turning 70, I decided to try it. Her description is identical to my experience. My perception of time was really altered. Just like she said, there was a delay between external events and my brain processing it, as well. Everyday chores were difficult because I had to think about things that were usually automatic. Everything seemed out of sequence. Another odd thing that I noticed was that my metaperception was drastically reduced. At the time, I thought, "Damn! That's weird." There's a lot of time wasted in forethought and inside other people's heads. I didn't lose my sense of self, though, but I didn't feel like I was in control. If our sense of self is an illusion then we are just an experience machine. Weird! Just say no to drugs. RE: What can depersonalization disorder say about the self? - Syne - Jul 11, 2018 I had a friend once, struggling with opioid addiction, that said he felt like an ant...just automatically following routine. A lot of people on anti-depressants report similar feelings. The biggest problem with marijuana is it altering the perception of time, IMO. I guess a natural extrovert may be taken aback by being knocking into their head (reminds me of a coke-head I knew once and his first experience with LSD), by I doubt it's such a gear shift for natural introverts. I wasted about seven years, decades ago, smoking pot. I don't recommend it to anyone. If you need the medicinal properties, try CBD oil. Depersonalization just sounds like an extreme dissociation. RE: What can depersonalization disorder say about the self? - Secular Sanity - Jul 11, 2018 Seven years is a long time. I only took two drags and that was enough for me. I don’t need it for a medicinal purpose. I was just curious. It is a dissociative disorder but the author does ask an interesting question. If the self is an illusion, who’s delusional, us or them? I think it's fascinating. Quote:I experience depersonalisation as mostly a lack of narrative. Moments seem to melt away as soon as they have passed, and life goes by as a series of unrelated frames. RE: What can depersonalization disorder say about the self? - Syne - Jul 11, 2018 Yeah, it is a long time. Basically from 18 to 25 (when the brain, on average, takes on the activity patterns of an adult). I'd love to have those years back, but that's a pretty typical period of finding oneself. Dissociation is a disorder because it has a negative, disruptive effect on one's life. So objectively, the dissociative are delusional. There's also no naturalistic explanations for an illusory self. RE: What can depersonalization disorder say about the self? - confused2 - Jul 11, 2018 After two drags.. SS Wrote:If the self is an illusion, who’s delusional, us or them?Like, er, maybe one or more drags too many? I might have had my own story but (I find) birds are much more interesting. I hope you (SS) have normalised relations with the human race - they're OK really - well some are - maybe. Just say no to drugs - it will never be a bad call. RE: What can depersonalization disorder say about the self? - C C - Jul 12, 2018 (Jul 11, 2018 03:43 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: Reminds me a tad of Roger Lewin describing the after-effects of Chris Langton's hang-gliding accident, in one of the early books about chaos and complexity written for the public.[*] It was an extraordinary experience," recalled Chris Langton. "It's difficult to describe in any precise way, but it was like my brain switched to a new level of activity. Maybe it was triggered by the heat stroke. "We were at Chris's house, midway between Santa Fe and Los Alamos, and he was telling me about an odd aspect of his recovery from a devastating hang-gliding accident. RE: What can depersonalization disorder say about the self? - RainbowUnicorn - Jul 12, 2018 (Jul 11, 2018 03:43 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: When the Self Slips Quote: but I didn't feel like I was in control. what is "control" ? RE: What can depersonalization disorder say about the self? - Secular Sanity - Jul 12, 2018 (Jul 12, 2018 02:51 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote: what is "control" ? Being able to control events that may affect you. Doesn't always work as planned, though. (Jul 12, 2018 12:31 AM)C C Wrote: Reminds me a tad of Roger Lewin describing the after-effects of Chris Langton's hang-gliding accident, in one of the early books about chaos and complexity written for the public. You’re good with this sort stuff, C C. This is what I’ve got so far. We have the existential sense of self and the categorical sense of self. The existential self is the sense of being separate and distinct from others. The categorical self is the awareness of being an object with properties, e.g. size, age, gender, etc. As we age we start to categorize ourselves in other numerous ways, e.g. religious beliefs, jobs, politics, race, sexuality, etc. "It was as if I could see the world, but somehow I wasn't in it, no emotional presence. Like looking at a picture of something rather than seeing the real thing and reacting to it as a person." But what’s interesting about your story is that Antonia Damasio thinks that what we call the mind, or the self, and the subjectivity is something that begins not with the connection with the outside world, but with our connection to our inner worlds with what we call the body. It doesn’t mean, though, that the outside world, as represented in our brain, doesn’t have a connection to our internal worlds, but he thinks it’s critical to understand that the origin of the self begins in the interior, not in the external world. We also have this idea that the images that we have of ourselves, others, and the external world are a part of the self, but there’s no qualia in images. There’s no qualia in a beautiful landscape or a piece of music. There are no images that are devoid of sentimental qualities that lie between pleasure and pain and we associate these representations and feelings of these images with the self. This sort of sounds like what they’re describing. The narratives, symbolism, and feelings that we attach to sights, sounds, i.e. our sensual perceptions of the external world seem to be missing. What do you think? C2 Wrote:I hope you (SS) have normalised relations with the human race - they're OK really - well some are - maybe. I'll go with RU's line of questioning. What's normal? RE: What can depersonalization disorder say about the self? - C C - Jul 12, 2018 (Jul 12, 2018 02:59 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote: This sort of sounds like what they’re describing. The narratives, symbolism, and feelings that we attach to sights, sounds, i.e. our sensual perceptions of the external world seem to be missing. Capgras delusion narrows down to specific people or domesticated animals not having the usual emotional and conceptual significance projected upon them (among other potential contributing factors). Resulting in those individuals being deemed imposters. A parent or loved one doesn't "feel right", even though they exhibit the correct appearance, voice, and behavior. ~ RE: What can depersonalization disorder say about the self? - Secular Sanity - Jul 12, 2018 (Jul 12, 2018 10:18 AM)C C Wrote: Capgras delusion narrows down to specific people or domesticated animals not having the usual emotional and conceptual significance projected upon them (among other potential contributing factors). Resulting in those individuals being deemed imposters. A parent or loved one doesn't "feel right", even though they exhibit the correct appearance, voice, and behavior. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that one. Perfect! Thanks, C C! |