Key Differences

Methods of Control:
1984 (Orwell): Control is maintained through fear, constant surveillance, propaganda, and physical punishment.
Brave New World (Huxley): Control is achieved through conditioning, engineered happiness, consumption, and the drug "soma," making people love their servitude.
Society and Humanity:
1984: Humanity is suppressed, individual thought is illegal (thoughtcrime), and historical truth is destroyed.
Brave New World: Humanity is biologically engineered into castes (Alpha-Epsilon), with emotion, family, and art eliminated in favor of stability.
The Nature of the Threat:
1984: A "horror-dystopia" where the state is an evil enemy.
Brave New World: A "utopian-dystopia" where the inhabitants are happy in their chains.
- Gemini

Quote:Historically, fascism is socialist/communist.

While communist ideology is theoretically internationalist (the workers of the world unite), communist regimes in practice have almost always relied on nationalism and internal hierarchies to stay in power.
Even though they start from a different place than fascists, they often "end up" in a similar place to maintain control.

1. Transition to "Socialist Patriotism"
Historically, "pure" internationalism rarely motivates people for long. To survive, leaders like Stalin and Mao shifted toward "Socialist Patriotism":

    The USSR: Stalin famously pivoted to "Socialism in One Country," arguing that the Soviet Union must first become a strong, industrial nation to survive capitalist enemies.
    The "Elder Brother": During WWII, Stalin invoked Great Russian nationalism to rally the people, treating ethnic Russians as the "leading" nation or "elder brother" of the USSR's other ethnic groups.

2. Replacing Class with a New "Political Hierarchy"
Communism promises to eliminate class, but in practice, it creates a new, rigid hierarchy based on Party loyalty:

    The Nomenklatura: A privileged elite of Party officials who have access to better housing, food, and schools, while the workers remain at the bottom.
    The Vanguard: The Party justifies its absolute power by claiming to be the "vanguard" of the people, effectively making themselves a new ruling class.

3. Anti-Imperialist Nationalism
In countries like China, Vietnam, and Cuba, communism was often a tool for National Liberation:

    Maoism: Mao Zedong framed the revolution as a way for China to "stand up" after a "century of humiliation" by foreign powers.
    Unpatriotic Dissent: In these systems, criticizing the Communist Party is often branded as being a "traitor to the nation" or a "foreign agent," using nationalist sentiment to crush political dissent.
- Gemini

(Apr 24, 2026 10:52 AM)confused2 Wrote: Extremists like extreme points of view.
"You only have to look at Pol Pot to see what happens when you have universal health care."

Yes, the UK’s universal healthcare system, the National Health Service (NHS), is associated with significant wait times for non-urgent elective procedures and specialized care, often characterized as a form of care rationing by demand rather than cost. Currently, over 7 million people are on waiting lists, with severe strain causing some patients to face delays of over a year.
- Gemini

Quote:I suspect deep in US psyche they still see themselves as invaders. The weak don't matter because they aren't the ones that will build a better/stronger country - they are to be discarded. The argument from the left isn't about anything reasonable (it isn't) .. it's about not being discarded.