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+--- Thread: EV fires (/thread-15011.html)
EV fires - Syne - Nov 24, 2023
(Nov 24, 2023 09:14 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: Exploding car statistics should start to go down as more EV’s enter the market.
The Reality of Electric Car Fires
Electric cars have been a popular choice for environmentalists and tech enthusiasts alike. Sales of electric cars have been on the rise in recent years, and it's understandable why: electric cars are usually more efficient, eco-friendly, and quieter than gas-powered cars. However, electric car fires are a reality that can't be ignored. According to a report by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA), electric car fires happen more often compared to traditional gasoline-powered vehicles. The report states that there's one fire for every 20,000 electric cars, compared to one fire for every 55,000 gas-powered cars.
The Causes of Electric Car Fires
So, why do electric cars catch fire more often? The answer is complicated but can be attributed to a few different factors. One factor is the car's battery pack. Electric cars use massive battery packs, which can be made up of hundreds of individual cells. If one cell fails, it can easily spread to others in the pack. Batteries are also prone to overheating, which is why electric cars have cooling systems specifically for the battery. Battery fires can also occur after a collision, causing damage to the pack and creating a fire risk. Another potential cause of electric car fires is the charging process. Lithium-ion batteries, which are commonly used in electric cars, can be volatile when charging. Overcharging, using the wrong charger, or charging in extreme temperatures can all cause a battery to catch fire. Finally, there's the issue of the car's wiring and electrical systems. Any electrical system carries a risk of fire, and electric cars are no exception. Issues with the wiring or electrical systems of the car can cause a fire risk, just like they would in a traditional gasoline-powered car.
- https://energy5.com/electric-cars-catch-fire-more-often-than-gasoline-cars
PORTLAND, Maine — Electric vehicle fires get a lot of press when they occur. Part of the reason for the additional coverage is that EV battery fires are significantly harder to extinguish compared to gas car fires.
“The challenges to putting it out is just that," Lt. Chris Swenson of the South Portland Fire Department said of lithium battery fires. "It can create its own oxygen, [meaning] it can sustain its own fire and get bigger and actually have multiple explosions as it burns, so we've got to be cautious, too. When we apply water to it, that can actually increase that fire."
EV fires can burn significantly hotter than an internal combustion engine fire. Data from FEMA suggest a gas-powered vehicle burns up to about 1,500 degrees Fahrenheit while a battery fire can reach over 2,500 F.
Most fire departments don’t have currently additional equipment or agents to combat this new brand of fire. That means they are dousing these fires with, at times, as much as 20,000 gallons of water to extinguish them or, in other cases, securing the surrounding area and simply letting them burn themselves out. That has its own dangers, however, as chemicals can be emitted in the smoke.
- https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/news/special-reports/maines-changing-climate/electric-vehicle-battery-fire-risk/97-c4a3c306-8f34-4f94-bf67-02e5dfd60066
RE: EV fires - Zinjanthropos - Nov 25, 2023
I knew I should have said less gasoline explosions.
RE: EV fires - Syne - Nov 25, 2023
Even if there were less explosions, the EV fires obviously do more harm to the environment. And that's not even accounting for the mining of rare battery materials, manufacturing, and the load on already stretched power grids mostly supplied by coal-fired plants.
RE: EV fires - confused2 - Nov 25, 2023
Syne Wrote:..load on already stretched power grids
Certainly in the UK and probably the US there are predictable peak-demand times when the demand is 50% or more higher than off-peak demand.
One consequence is that power grids are only 'stretched' for a short time every day - the rest of the time the distribution grid has (say) 50% or more spare capacity
On the generating side Nuclear power stations have to maintain a steady output and renewables are whatever they are on the day which leaves fossil fuels as the only option for meeting peak demand.
Both distribution and generation of electricity benefit from increasing demand during off-peak hours - which is exactly where a substantial but flexible demand like charging EVs fits in rather well.
In the UK the wholesale (spot) price of electricity varies from 0 (even -ve) to a something fantastically high. On the one hand we want to charge our EVs when electricity is cheap and on the other hand we don't want to find it has cost $50 to boil a kettle. In the UK we need to solve some technical problems - in the US it seems the problems are more human (education?) than technical.
Edit..
An article outlining problems with (solar) electricity generation
https://canadiancor.com/breaking-news/confronting-the-duck-curve-how-to-address-over-generation-of-solar-energy/
RE: EV fires - stryder - Nov 25, 2023
Another interesting problem to add to the equation is population figures. For instance in the last 100 years the population has increased from 1.8B to 8.05B, thats nearly 4.5 times the amount of people. If the rates the same for the next 100 years, the worlds population will be around 36B
I mention this because when people plan to create "electric cars for all" they don't consider any further than the present and not the continuing trend of more people all thinking they should be entitled to materialistic possessions. So it's not just the scope of just how many materials are necessarily to build the cars, or the batteries, but also the number of systems required to produce the power to cover it too. Consider currently most countries produced just about what they need when it comes to power consumption, we won't be ready for a huge surge in demand.
Unless some serious attempts to solve the problems by restructuring how people are educated in what they believe they are entitled to, the world is literally going to get even more volatile.
RE: EV fires - Syne - Nov 25, 2023
Well, there's plenty of evidence of declining birthrates in developed countries. So the rate of population increase is likely to dramatically slow. All the same, even just the existing population adopting EVs would massively increase electric grid demand. And since prices increase as demand does, this will increase energy costs for non-EV purposes, including for just basic survival of those who can't even afford an EV.
RE: EV fires - confused2 - Nov 25, 2023
Syne Wrote:..And since prices increase as demand does,True. The most expensive electricity comes at the time of peak demand - there may be generators that only actually provide power for a few hours a week or even a few hours a year. One possibility is allow EV users to sell electricity back to the grid at peak demand times - buying at 5 pence a Unit and selling back at (say) 30 pence a unit.
RE: EV fires - Zinjanthropos - Nov 25, 2023
Here in Ontario we appear to have plenty of hydro. Not sure if we still do this but there was a time not too long ago when Ontario paid Michigan and New York State to take our excess. Either that or sold it to those states for a vastly low rate.
Here’s how things are shaping up in Ontario. Night owls, retirees and EV owners stand to benefit.
https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-introduces-new-ultra-low-overnight-hydro-pricing-1.6350724?cache=yes%3FclipId%3D89926%3FautoPlay%3Dtrue