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UK topic: the Tory leadership race (next prime minister) - C C - Jul 23, 2022

Continued from "UK's next prime minister could be of Indian heritage": https://www.scivillage.com/thread-12581.html

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2022 Conservative Party leadership election (UK)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Conservative_Party_leadership_election_(UK)

Liz Truss
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liz_Truss

Rishi Sunak
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishi_Sunak




Key dates in the Tory leadership race between Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/liz-truss-boris-johnson-conservative-mps-prime-minister-b1014259.html

EXCERPT: – July 23: Mr Sunak visits the Lincolnshire town of Grantham, stressing his Thatcherite credentials in a speech in the hometown of the former Conservative prime minister.

Meanwhile, Ms Truss meets Conservative members at association events in Kent.

– July 25: BBC debate, Our Next Prime Minister, takes place at 9pm, in front of an audience in Stoke-on-Trent.

– July 26: The Sun’s Showdown: The Fight for No10 airs on the Sun website and TalkTV at 6pm, in front of a studio audience.

– August 4: Sky News hosts a debate featuring questions from a studio audience live from 8pm on Sky News channel 501, across Sky News’ digital channels and streamed on YouTube.

– August 5: The expected deadline for Tory members to receive postal ballots.

– September 5: New Conservative leader announced. The new prime minister will be announced when MPs return to Westminster from their summer break.

– September 6:  Boris Johnson to quit as Prime Minister to allow his successor to take over.


RE: UK thread on Tory leadership race - C C - Jul 23, 2022

Rishi Sunak vows to tackle NHS backlog while Liz Truss pledges EU ‘red tape bonfire’
https://metro.co.uk/2022/07/23/sunak-vows-to-tackle-nhs-backlog-as-truss-pledges-eu-red-tape-bonfire-17054532/?ito=newsnow-feed

EXCERPTS: Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak’s bid for Number 10 continues this weekend, with the leadership rivals making eye-catching policy proposals to try to win over Tory party members.

The Foreign Secretary has vowed to review all EU laws retained after Brexit by the end of 2023 in a ‘red tape bonfire’ if she becomes prime minister. She has also promised to scrap or replace those that are deemed to hinder UK growth.

Meanwhile, Mr Sunak has used a speech in Margaret Thatcher’s hometown to promise plans to tackle NHS backlogs, driven in part by a so-called ‘vaccines style’ taskforce.

The whittling down of the Tory leadership contenders to just two this week marks the beginning of the next stage of the contest to replace Boris Johnson.

Now, Ms Truss and Mr Sunak will attempt to woo grassroots Conservative party members who will ultimately vote for the next prime minister via a postal vote.

[...] Elsewhere, economic policy has so far been one of the primary dividing line of the leadership contest.

Mr Sunak has suggested that Ms Truss’ plans could see interest rates rise, while rejecting the suggestion he is running a so-called ‘project fear’.

But in an interview with the Telegraph, Ms Truss robustly defended her economic vision. Describing herself as an ‘insurgent’ who wants to change things, she told the newspaper that she wants the UK to become a ‘high growth, high productivity, powerhouse’... (MORE - missing details)


RE: UK topic: the Tory leadership race (next prime minister) - confused2 - Jul 24, 2022

Mrs C2 drew my attention to the possibility that Liz Truss may not be quite as smart as Rishi Sunak. Both Oxford PPE but a first for Rishi and 'graduated' for Liz. Liz could be accused (by Mrs C2) of opening mouth before engaging brain - Rishi not so much. So, guided (heavily influenced by) Mrs C2 I've switched to the Rishi camp.


RE: UK thread on Tory leadership race - C C - Jul 24, 2022

Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak pledge fresh measures to tighten British borders
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-07-24/truss-and-sunak-pledge-fresh-measures-to-tighten-british-borders

EXCERPTS: The UK will crack down further on illegal migration in the coming months regardless of who enters Downing Street, after both Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak pledged fresh measures to tighten British borders.

On a weekend in which the two rival camps traded blows over tax cuts and economic credibility, both the Foreign Secretary and the former chancellor appeared united on the need to toughen up UK policy on migrants as Ms Truss promised an expanded Border Force and Mr Sunak committed to an annual cap on the number of refugees.

The campaign so far had seen both candidates re-commit to the government’s controversial Rwanda asylum scheme, over which Britain currently stands to lose the £120 million it has paid to Rwanda if the plan to deport migrants is ruled unlawful by the courts.

Both candidates defended the policy, despite officials from the east African nation’s government confirming this week it had received the entire initial payment for the agreement signed in April and that the funds are already “committed”, with some money spent on preparations for arrivals.

[...] Mr Sunak travelled to Margaret Thatcher’s birthplace of Grantham in Lincolnshire where he stressed his “common sense” Thatcherite credentials and labelled the tax plans of Ms Truss “immoral”. His concerns were backed up by Tory grandees Chris Patten, Norman Lamont and Malcolm Rifkind, who told The Observer that Mrs Thatcher would not have approved of cutting taxes to curb inflation.

[...] But Ms Truss, during a visit to party members in Kent, once again defended her plans for potentially £30 billion of tax cuts, saying: “I think it is wrong to be taking money from people that we don’t need to take, when people across the country are struggling with the cost-of-living crisis.”

[...] The Foreign Secretary [Truss] will hope to win backing for her proposals on illegal migration, as she told the Mail on Sunday that “Britain’s borders will be protected” under her leadership.

[...] Mr Sunak ... promises to give Parliament control over who comes to the UK by creating an annual cap on the number of refugees accepted each year, albeit one that can be changed in the case of sudden emergencies.

[...] new polling by Opinium suggests that voters are largely split between Ms Truss and Mr Sunak, with 43% believing that Mr Sunak would be a good prime minister compared to 36% for the Foreign Secretary... (MORE - missing details)


RE: UK thread on Tory leadership race - stryder - Jul 25, 2022

Re: Rwanda
To be honest I'd come up with an idea prior to this Rwanda one that makes it look like they saw my idea and then completely butchered it.

While doing my familytree I found out a few of my Great+ Grandfathers had run Workhouses in the east of England.  The concept of a workhouse back then was due to the absense of any social support systems and it's where a number of people ended up when they didn't have any money and faced starvation.  Some workhouses were extremely exploitive of the people that ended up in them, however from the tip of the iceberg that I'd been looking at, the ones in question had been run pretty well.  They covered the healthcare and education* of the people that resided there (*although harvest time, some children played hooky to work in the fields for some extra coin)

I considered a more updated version to a workhouse in regards to immigration.  The concept is rather than it being something negative that you send people to when they've done something wrong, you actually operate it as a positive.  You make it somewhere that people want to go when they go through the process of immigration, rather than the alternatives.

Giving them a better way forwards will encourage them to at least seek/attempt that method rather than making a hazardous crossing.

So a hypothetical of how it would work:
First you need offices outside of the country dealing with emigration requests.  There is two types of immigration, those that have skills that match a particular criteria and can do the paperwork, and those that aren't necessarily skilled with the paperwork or education but are prepared to toil to prove their worth.  Currently Immigration is an extremely classist system for that reason, as only the former is catered for, as the latter would require corporate sponsorship which is only possible if you've proven yourself to someone that happens to handle that sort of paperwork.

That leads to having people that become frustated from their inability to communicate their capacity at the level that some immigration officer wants to hear.

At these offices, people should be able to approach and either offer their "skilled" capacity or their "toil". 

Skilled would continue as is, where immigration tends to snap up those that claim to have knowledge of a skilled subject (although sometimes these people are frauds).

Toil would mean sending these people (and close families) to a village in a host country.  The prospective immigrant will then be given a job to do while they are there.  During that time, their healthcare can be checked, their mental wellbeing balanced (considering some people come from some horror story backgrounds), their education can commence (Language and skills to aid in integration should they prove themselves.) 

They would require staying, living, working, training in that setup for a specific time.  (A couple of years or so)  That would give ample time for their background to be completely observed, their healthcare to be brought up to speed an for them to become educated enough to function in the country they intend to emigrate to. 

During their time working in this village.  They will be paid for their work, but it would be a reduced amount for two reasons.  The first being part of the cost of operating such a method would fall partially on them, the second reason is that a savings fund would be built up over the time they spend working there.

When it comes to the day that they are either granted the right to emigrate or denied, they will be given access to that savings fund.  If they are granted access, then they will have a higher amount of funds available to them when they emigrate to the country than if they are denied.  If they are denied they will only have a severance amount to give them a chance to find some otherway in life (so they haven't completely wasted their time and they aren't completely upset at not making the cut, they still have something from it.  A nest egg, better healthcare and some education)

Living in such a village, it's not a labour camp, it wouldn't have barbedwire fencing and no one is forced.  They could come and go from the village as they like.  Should they decide it's not for them, they can move out (and only take a reduced amount of their severance amount)

It does have some points for the countries involved though, for instance the labour would be cheap for a duration.  (The immigrants nestegg would be made up from savings and government grants awarded should they complete the criterias put before them)  That means it's an investment and could be backed by investment funds.
The host country would obviously require something for their troubles, but if done correctly it can generate better ties between countries than further division.

I guess my problem is I tend to be Utopiac in envisionment, and should already know that literally anything the government touches turns to an Orwellian nightmare.


RE: UK thread on Tory leadership race - C C - Jul 25, 2022

Tory leadership debate: Rishi Sunak fails to secure breakthrough moment against Liz Truss
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2022/07/tory-leadership-debate-rishi-sunak-fails-to-secure-breakthrough-moment-against-liz-truss

INTRO: It was hardly a closely-guarded secret that there was no love lost between Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak. Allies of the two former cabinet colleagues, now vying to be prime minister, have spent the day taking potshots over the rivals’ dress sense, patriotism and integrity – not to mention their plans for tax and public spending.

Tonight’s BBC debate in which, despite an unprecedented labour shortage, the NHS was barely mentioned, did not provide a game-changing moment and Sunak remains the underdog, hamstrung by his decision as chancellor to raise taxes.

Truss, the Foreign Secretary and supposedly the preferred candidate of outgoing PM Boris Johnson, showed her frontbench experience and seemed largely unfazed by Sunak. She riposted “maybe I’ve learned from that” after Sunak referenced her past support for Remain and stood by her plan to cut taxes by £30bn when the former chancellor accused her of economic recklessness (citing Truss’s favoured economist Patrick Minford’s call for seven per cent interest rates).

While Sunak came out swinging, determined to expose Truss’s plans as a debt-heavy burden for future generations, he struggled to break through, and at times looked desperate. His keenness will play into Truss’s hands, as her outriders, who have already berated his love of expensive attire, now charge him with “mansplaining”... (MORE - details)

Snap poll puts Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss level

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/sOESqelFQyE


RE: UK topic: the Tory leadership race (next prime minister) - C C - Jul 26, 2022

Liz Truss looked stunned after host collapsed forcing Tory debate off air
https://www.indy100.com/viral/liz-truss-talktv-tory-debate

INTRO: Tuesday night's Tory debate between Liz Truss and Rishi Sunak was cut short after a TalkTV host collapsed on-air, interrupting a stunned-looking Truss mid-sentence.

Truss, 47 and Sunak, 42, went head-to-head on TalkTV hosted by The Sun to debate their policies in the race to become the UK's next Prime Minister.

However, about an hour into the broadcast everything halted after a sudden crash in the studio shocked Truss into silence.

Truss and Sunak were discussing their stance on dealing with Russian President Vladimir Putin should he limit gas access this winter when suddenly slightly off-screen a crash occurred.

Behind the podium, Truss stopped speaking and jumped raising her hands to her face saying "oh my god". Looking down at what seemed to be a collapsed person.

Truss walked slowly toward the camera, seemingly to check if the collapsed person was ok.

TalkTV cut the sound and footage of the debate as audience members wondered what happened... (MORE - details)

"Poor taste" video segment of the missing final segment is here (for comments & inquiries specifically pertaining to fainting event): https://www.scivillage.com/thread-12613-post-52213.html#pid52213

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TV clash between Sunak and Truss halted after host faints live on air
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/watch-tv-clash-between-sunak-and-truss-halted-after-host-faints-live-on-air-330684/

EXCERPTS: The second TV clash between Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss was dramatically halted and subsequently cancelled after host Kate McCann fainted live on air...

[...] Before the debate was taken off air, the two Tory rivals locked horns once again as they fought for the support of their party members, with taxes and the economy causing the most acrimony.

Ms Truss said it was “morally wrong” to raise taxes during a cost-of-living crisis, but Mr Sunak quickly shot back, saying it was “morally wrong” to heap more debt on future generations.

[...] The two also clashed over the rise in national insurance, brought in to help pay for the NHS and social care.

The former chancellor described himself as “brave” for introducing the £12 billion tax increase to pay for health social care, telling the debate:

“I made sure we got the NHS the funding it needed to help work through the backlogs, get everyone the care they needed and do that as quickly as possible. It wasn’t an easy thing for me to do, I got a lot of criticism for it, but I believe it was the right thing to do as I don’t think we can have an NHS which is ultimately the country’s number one public service priority that is underfunded and not able to deliver the care it needs. And that’s why I think you can be reassured the NHS is safe in my hands because I’ve taken what was a brave decision to get it the support it needed.”

On the other hand, Ms Truss said she would scrap the national insurance rise and use general taxation to fund the NHS. She said:

“I am committed to the extra money that was announced for the NHS. It is needed to deal with the backlog, and I would fund that money out of general taxation. Under my plans, we will still be able to start paying the debt down within three years, so it is affordable, and the fact is whatever Rishi says now, we didn’t need to raise national insurance in order to pay, we did have that money available in the budget, it was a choice to break our manifesto commitment and raise national insurance. I think it was the wrong choice to make, I spoke out against it at the time in Cabinet, I still remain opposed to it, and I’d reverse that rise.”

[...] Mr Sunak was also asked if he had the “guts to stand up to (Vladimir) Putin”...

The former chancellor replied: “Yes [...] a year and a half ago I made sure that our armed forces got the largest uplift in funding that they’ve had since the end of the Cold War to make sure that we’re protected against threats, like Putin. As chancellor I also worked with all my finance ministers around the world to put in place a sanctions package..." (MORE - missing details

Full video of debate, minus the segment with fainting crash ... https://youtu.be/RS6m1KkvsEw

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/RS6m1KkvsEw

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Sunak and Truss: latest debate cut short after medical incident ... https://youtu.be/ivJ_LBnxTGo

https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/ivJ_LBnxTGo


RE: UK thread on Tory leadership race - RainbowUnicorn - Jul 27, 2022

(Jul 25, 2022 01:30 AM)stryder Wrote: I guess my problem is I tend to be Utopiac in envisionment, and should already know that literally anything the government touches turns to an Orwellian nightmare.

The government doesn't operate in a vacuum even if its politicians are over paid and under worked

social class systems dictate opportunity
culture dictates process and availability & access

so its a contrived conflated muddle of things culminating in an end result that tends to not be ideal to any party because its serving its own interests as a force to oppose general rules.

if i were labour i would be running a publicity campaign mockery proposing an election between 2 garden vegetables
a turnip & a potato selling themselves as a multi layer Christmas cake & a horn of plenty

if i had to choose because there were no spare potatos or turnips
i would choose rishi because he seems a little les off queue
lizz appears to wind off into her alternate excuse narrative a little too heavily so is not as good at lying.

you want a convincing good quality liar to be running your front of house
... if you have to have someone you dont like
& i think the conservatives are less likely to roll rishi as quickly as they would roll lizz
i think they will both probably do the same quality of work
but most people are created to force a need to choose someone to be a leader before any work has been done.

... and the conservative party have proven they prioritize running in circles back stabbing each other playing king maker as more important than running the country.
... and they may well lose a general election if one was called, currently,
so they are looking for a savior they can sacrifice
lol
irony


RE: UK topic: the Tory leadership race (next prime minister) - C C - Jul 27, 2022

Campaign update: Day 21 (Guido Fawkes)
https://order-order.com/2022/07/27/campaign-update-day-21/

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Rishi Sunak's £4billion U-turn to drop VAT on energy bills would send Britain in 'exactly the wrong direction', Institute For Fiscal Studies says
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11055045/Sunaks-4bn-U-turn-drop-VAT-energy-bills-send-Britain-exactly-wrong-direction.html

KEY POINTS:

• The former chancellor has previously repeatedly refused to match rival Liz Truss on cutting taxes.
• He has made a point of insisting such cuts must wait until inflation - currently at 9.4 per cent - is curbed.
• But today he pledged to scrap the 5 per cent VAT rate levied on domestic energy bills for a year.
• The IFS said, should the VAT be scrapped for a year, it would be difficult for it to be reinstated.
• If policy was made permanent, IFS said proposal would take the UK's economy in 'exactly the wrong direction'.
• Polls show he is trailing Ms Truss in the race to lead the Tories and become prime minister in September.

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Tory leadership: Liz Truss promises new offence of street harassment
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62324775

INTRO: Liz Truss has promised to introduce a national domestic abuse register and a new offence of street harassment if she becomes prime minister. The Tory leadership contender said politicians must do more to tackle violence against women and girls.

In the past two years the nation had been "shocked" by the number of high profile murders of women, she added. Labour MP Stella Creasy, who has pushed for misogyny to be made a crime, called it a major U-turn by Ms Truss.

The domestic abuse register being proposed by the foreign secretary would include coercive and controlling behaviour and financial abuse, and would aim to break the cycle of repeat offending. She said convicted offenders would have to inform the police of their arrangements with new partners and their children, or face harsh penalties.

Ms Truss has also pledged to accelerate the process for handling rape cases, as part of a programme to build on the government's Violence Against Women and Girls Strategy...


RE: UK topic: the Tory leadership race (next prime minister) - confused2 - Jul 27, 2022

While I think of it ..
I'd suggest victims of violent crime (especially rape) should be dealt with on/within hospital grounds instead of a police station.
Like seeking sanctuary and justice at the same time and place.
Why? In England and Wales (2021) only 1 in 67 of 67,125 recorded rapes resulted in a successful prosecution.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48095118