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The myth of self-control - Magical Realist - Jul 24, 2021
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2016/11/3/13486940/self-control-psychology-myth
"As the Bible tells it, the first crime committed was a lapse of self-control. Eve was forbidden from tasting the fruit on the tree of knowledge. But the temptation was too much. The fruit was just so “pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom,” Genesis reads. Who wouldn’t want that? Humanity was just days old, but already we were succumbing to a vice.
The takeaway from this story was clear: when temptation overcomes willpower, it’s a moral failing, worthy of punishment.
Modern-day psychologists might not blame Eve for her errant ways at all. Because what’s true today was also true at the beginning of time (regardless of what story you believe in): Human beings are horrible at resisting temptation.
“Effortful restraint, where you are fighting yourself — the benefits of that are overhyped,” Kentaro Fujita, a psychologist who studies self-control at the Ohio State University, says.
He’s not the only one who thinks so. Several researchers I spoke to are making a strong case that we shouldn’t feel so bad when we fall for temptations.
“THERE’S A STRONG ASSUMPTION STILL THAT EXERTING SELF-CONTROL IS BENEFICIAL … AND WE’RE SHOWING IN THE LONG TERM, IT’S NOT”
Indeed, studies have found that trying to teach people to resist temptation either only has short-term gains or can be an outright failure. “We don’t seem to be all that good at [self-control],” Brian Galla, a psychologist at the University of Pittsburgh, says.
The implications of this are huge: If we accept that brute willpower doesn’t work, we can feel less bad about ourselves when we succumb to temptation. And we might also be able refocus our efforts on solving problems like obesity. A recent national survey from the University of Chicago finds that 75 percent of Americans say a lack of willpower is a barrier to weight loss. And yet the emerging scientific consensus is that the obesity crisis is the result of a number of factors, including genes and the food environment — and, crucially, not a lack of willpower.
If we could stop worshiping self-control, maybe we could start thinking about diluting the power of temptation — and helping people meet their goals in new ways with less effort...."
RE: The myth of self-control - Syne - Jul 24, 2021
Of course, the writers/editors of Vox are not going to be keen on self-control. They're leftist pieces of crap who generally believe in blaming others rather than personal responsibility. Like their propensity for blaming inanimate objects, like guns, instead of the people and criminals who misuse them. And they even clearly state their motivation: "If we accept that brute willpower doesn’t work, we can feel less bad about ourselves when we succumb to temptation." Instead of working to change their behavior to avoid feeling bad about themselves, they just lazily decide free will is BS. But the source aside, what does "trying to teach people to resist temptation" have to do with whether it's possible? There's many life lessons that can't really be taught, you can only learn through your own experience. So this is just a tangential excuse for their own lazy, lack of self-control.
"75 percent of Americans say a lack of willpower is a barrier to weight loss," because they know it's ultimately true. An "emerging scientific consensus" literally means there isn't one yet.
Quote:“Our prototypical model of self-control is angel on one side and devil on the other, and they battle it out,” Fujita says. “We tend to think of people with strong willpower as people who are able to fight this battle effectively. Actually, the people who are really good at self-control never have these battles in the first place.”Complete bullshit. Everyone has a self-control battle with something, no matter how well they do at controlling it.
Quote:To put it more simply: The people who said they excel at self-control were hardly using it at all.No, self-control just became a habit. Anything done frequently enough can become a habit. Like any muscle, the more you use it, the easier it is to use.
Quote:The students who exerted more self-control were not more successful in accomplishing their goals. It was the students who experienced fewer temptations overall who were more successful when the researchers checked back in at the end of the semester. What’s more, the people who exercised more effortful self-control also reported feeling more depleted. So not only were they not meeting their goals, they were also exhausted from trying.You'd find the same from someone just starting to workout and someone who's been doing it for a year. Those who experience "fewer temptations" are just more practiced at ignoring them. They still get them, they're just more practiced at controlling their own attention, instead of obsessing about their desire or what they're giving up.
Quote:1) People who are better at self-control actually enjoy the activities some of us resist — like eating healthy, studying, or exercising.I don't really enjoy working out, but I still do it twice a day, five days a week. I don't on the weekend, specifically because I don't enjoy it and what a break. I don't enjoy eating healthy, but I generally do. But like exercise, I allow myself some breaks.
Quote:2) People who are good at self-control have learned better habitsYes, the operative word there being learned. You're not born with better habits, which demonstrates he lie of their "can't be taught" excuse.
...Not because of their willpower, but because the routine makes it easier.
Having/creating a routine takes willpower. Moving an alarm clock across the room is planning, but making yourself exercise at the same time every day takes more than just planning.
RE: The myth of self-control - Magical Realist - Jul 25, 2021
I agree with the article. People who seem to have more self-discipline aren't motivating themselves out of sheer willpower. There is something they want more than the pleasure they are giving up, which may range from the self-satisfaction of "being stronger" to the pleasure of fitting into a popular lifestyle fad.
For instance, someone who can control their diet and weight likely has a stronger desire to look better than to indulge in carbs and sweets.
The fictional narrative of self-control, which we tell ourselves after the fact, also serves as a big ego boost to people who are insecure. Giving into their id is taken as disgusting and weak and doing without assumes a sort of moral value of being stronger and more successful in life. Such people use this narrative to feed their vanity and pride, which in fact only consists in more ambition to be seen a certain way by giving up certain immediate pleasures. Their moral edict becomes one of a sort of ethics of masochism: "no pain, no gain", gain measured in terms of how vain or conceited and "self-controlled'' they can feel as a result of their hard work and/or asceticism.
RE: The myth of self-control - Syne - Jul 25, 2021
Of course you do, as you have a vested interest in justifying your own lack thereof.
I'm not dieting (as I sit here eating M&Ms). What am I giving up by working out? The potential for obesity and its poor health effects? Seems you'd have to be self-destructive to want those. Am I giving up a little time that would otherwise only be spent sitting on my ass, literally being lazy? So is the "pleasure they are giving up" just an excuse to be lazy?
Overindulgence in anything is generally unhealthy. So disbelief in self-control seems to primarily be the excuse of the self-destructive. And that's how self-destructive behavior, depression, etc. become vicious cycles. Excuses and justifications become the obstacles to solutions, like work and self-control.
Seems the only things the self-disciplined have is an appreciation for consequences and a healthy desire for their own well-being. Basic survival instincts. Calling that fiction is obviously an excuse.
And seeing as you lack self-control, it's much more likely that it's your narrative that is the fiction, as you lack personal experience of which you speak. Whereas those with self-control only developed it after having experienced the lack thereof. That you have to demonize those with self-control so much only speaks to how much you've had to justify your own self-destructive behavior.
RE: The myth of self-control - Yazata - Jul 25, 2021
(Jul 24, 2021 07:43 PM)Magical Realist quotes somebody who Wrote: "As the Bible tells it...
This whole thing begins as if it was one of atheism's never ending attacks on the Bible. It pre-biases things to appeal to people who don't like Christianity, and it pre-biases things to concentrate on sexual temptation. (Are we even allowed to say 'sexual' any more? Or must it always be 'gender'?)
Quote:Modern-day psychologists might not blame Eve for her errant ways at all.
But they do blame other classes of "sinners" such as "racists", "bigots" and whatnot. How is that not hypocritical?
Quote:Because what’s true today was also true at the beginning of time (regardless of what story you believe in): Human beings are horrible at resisting temptation.
There are countless examples of people resisting temptation. Examples can be taken from pretty much any life. Parents sacrifice to raise their children. They refrain from stealing and other crime. They hold their tongues and refrain from saying hurtful words that can destroy friendships.
Quote:“Effortful restraint, where you are fighting yourself — the benefits of that are overhyped,” Kentaro Fujita, a psychologist who studies self-control at the Ohio State University, says.
That may or may not be true if restraint is construed as "fighting yourself", whatever that means.
Quote:He’s not the only one who thinks so. Several researchers I spoke to are making a strong case that we shouldn’t feel so bad when we fall for temptations.
“THERE’S A STRONG ASSUMPTION STILL THAT EXERTING SELF-CONTROL IS BENEFICIAL … AND WE’RE SHOWING IN THE LONG TERM, IT’S NOT”
On the face of it, that's bullshit.
What if somebody sees an attractive woman, is sexually aroused and makes no effort at self-control and rapes her instead? What if somebody else sees an African-American and shouts "nigger"? What if that redneck in the beat up pickup truck feels like killing himself a few faggots?
I think that it isn't so much that they think that self-control isn't beneficial, it's just that THEY don't like being told that they are the ones that should exercise self-restraint. OTHER people obviously must adhere scrupulously to self-restraint.
We live in an age that is a crazy mix of post-60's libertinism ("If it feels good, do it!") and the harshest sort of neo-puritanism imaginable (where media are censored and where one must refrain from even "micro-aggressions").
Quote:Indeed, studies have found that trying to teach people to resist temptation either only has short-term gains or can be an outright failure. “We don’t seem to be all that good at [self-control],” Brian Galla, a psychologist at the University of Pittsburgh, says.
Or maybe that just means that psychology professors aren't very good at teaching self-control. Perhaps the ones to be teaching self-restraint should be Buddhist monks, who make self-control into an art-form, or maybe just your mother, who probably knows as much about it as the professors.
RE: The myth of self-control - Syne - Jul 25, 2021
(Jul 25, 2021 04:20 PM)Yazata Wrote:According to the woke left, "yourself" is whatever you feel like, with no effort to control, moderate, or be restricted by any external pressures. So your true self is the laziest, most selfish and impulsive version of you possible. You know, literally racking up the seven deadly sins as fast as possible...hence the need to start by contradicting the Bible.Quote:“Effortful restraint, where you are fighting yourself — the benefits of that are overhyped,” Kentaro Fujita, a psychologist who studies self-control at the Ohio State University, says.
That may or may not be true if restraint is construed as "fighting yourself", whatever that means.
Quote:I think that it isn't so much that they think that self-control isn't beneficial, it's just that THEY don't like being told that they are the ones that should exercise self-restraint. OTHER people obviously must adhere scrupulously to self-restraint.Apropos the terminally hypocritical left.
Quote:We live in an age that is a crazy mix of post-60's libertinism ("If it feels good, do it!") and the harshest sort of neo-puritanism imaginable (where media are censored and where one must refrain from even "micro-aggressions").But where those two impetuses used to come from different quarters, now they schizophrenically come from the same side. It's literally insanity run amok.
Quote:It means that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Just like addiction recovery, dieting, exercise, schooling, or many other ways humans can better themselves, teaching can only accomplish so much without the willing effort and participation of the individual.Quote:Indeed, studies have found that trying to teach people to resist temptation either only has short-term gains or can be an outright failure. “We don’t seem to be all that good at [self-control],” Brian Galla, a psychologist at the University of Pittsburgh, says.
Or maybe that just means that psychology professors aren't very good at teaching self-control. Perhaps the ones to be teach self-restraint should be Buddhist monks, who make self-control into an art-form, or maybe just your mother, who probably knows as much about it as the professors.
RE: The myth of self-control - Magical Realist - Jul 25, 2021
Quote:I'm not dieting (as I sit here eating M&Ms). What am I giving up by working out? The potential for obesity and its poor health effects? Seems you'd have to be self-destructive to want those. Am I giving up a little time that would otherwise only be spent sitting on my ass, literally being lazy? So is the "pleasure they are giving up" just an excuse to be lazy?
You're not somehow participating in the vice of laziness by sitting doing nothing. You're not doing nothing. You're on the computer learning new things, participating in a mentally stimulating discussion, posting your deeper musings to the online world, and allowing your body to rest and restore itself. The concept of laziness is a carryover from a time when the protestant work ethic was prevalent. Based on the Bible, it's the immoralism of doing nothing when we should be active and working towards something. "Idleness is the devil's workshop" and so on.In reality there is no such ethic. We are as free to be inactive as we are obliged to be active. There is nothing wrong with it. It's a part of the myth that we get caught up in. As if humans are mere things that have to serve a function and don't derive their purpose innately from their very being...from their very participation in the world thru experience and being conscious.
RE: The myth of self-control - Syne - Jul 25, 2021
(Jul 25, 2021 05:38 PM)Magical Realist Wrote:Quote:I'm not dieting (as I sit here eating M&Ms). What am I giving up by working out? The potential for obesity and its poor health effects? Seems you'd have to be self-destructive to want those. Am I giving up a little time that would otherwise only be spent sitting on my ass, literally being lazy? So is the "pleasure they are giving up" just an excuse to be lazy?
You're not somehow participating in the vice of laziness by sitting doing nothing. You're not doing nothing. You're on the computer learning new things, participating in a mentally stimulating discussion, posting your deeper musings to the online world, and allowing your body to rest and restore itself. The concept of laziness is a carryover from a time when the protestant work ethic was prevalent. Based on the Bible, it's the immoralism of doing nothing when we should be active and working towards something. "Idleness is the devil's workshop" and so on.In reality there is no such ethic. We are as free to be inactive and we are obliged to be active. There is nothing wrong with it. It's a part of the myth that we get caught up in.
I'm not doing that stuff every minute that I'm sitting around. Sometimes it's just sitting around watching TV or videos (which I also do while working out), and there's zero need for your body to rest and restore if you're not working it. So now the entire concept of laziness is a myth? Sounds like a lot of denial. Nowhere in any work ethic is the sort of absolutism that requires zero idleness that you imply. Again, you've exaggerated things to justify your own lack thereof.
RE: The myth of self-control - Leigha - Aug 18, 2021
I prefer the mindset that focuses on forming positive habits. In essence, it's the same thing, but sometimes we think of self-control as this heroic type of willpower game, and when we don't follow through, we feel unnecessarily inadequate. (Although, sometimes, we have to get real with ourselves if we continuously fail to follow through with tasks that need to be done!) Whatever the language we decide to use, the benefits of self-control should outweigh the negatives imo, if you look at it as a means to building lasting positive habits. Self-control also ties in with self-respect and confidence, in my opinion.
With all things, it's important to find a balance. And success means different things to different people.
RE: The myth of self-control - Syne - Aug 18, 2021
Forming positive habits is exactly how you exercise the muscle of will power, making it easier to exert. When I started to workout, I started very small and easy. Just enough that it was a little challenging, but not too challenging to keep doing every day (well, 5 days a week, I like my weekends off). After a while, it gets too easy, and you have to increase the challenge, so you don't get bored with it. Then once you start to see positive change, you start to wonder how much positive change you can achieve.
Exerting will power is one of the most rewarding things you can do. Not only to achieve any goals you may have but also to prove to yourself that you can overcome your own inertial habits, patterns of though, etc., whether bad ones or just a rut.
I agree. It's much better to start small than to aim so high so fast that you fail and convince yourself it can't be done. Ultimately will power is what you convince yourself you can do. It's like when I quit smoking. It's not just the decision to quit. It's also the decision that the first decision will stick. That you can make a decision and that you are the only arbiter of the power of that decision. Within like six month of quitting smoking, I've never even had an urge since.