12 really bad religious ideas

https://valerietarico.com/2015/01/20/rel...rld-worse/

"Some of humanity’s technological innovations are things we would have been better off without: the medieval rack, the atomic bomb and powdered lead potions come to mind. Religions tend to develop ideas or concepts rather than technologies, but like every other creative human enterprise, they produce some really bad ones along with the good.

My website, Wisdom Commons, highlights some of humanity’s best moral and spiritual concepts, ideas like the Golden Rule, and values like compassion, generosity and courage that make up our shared moral core. Here, by way of contrast, are some of the worst. These twelve dubious concepts promote conflict, cruelty, suffering and death rather than love and peace. To paraphrase Christopher Hitchens, they belong in the dustbin of history just as soon as we can get them there..."

Fun read, but sad at the same time. If those are the 12 really bad then how many are just plain bad. I was sure prophets would be on that list. Those guys, false, real or imagined, were game changers.

Here are some more bad ideas of religion that involve doctrine:

1) Original sin--the idea that humans inherit immorality and sin from Adam.

2) The evil of contraception--the idea that birth control is wrong.

3) Sodomy--the idea that gays are evil and should be killed.

4) Moral conversion--the idea that anybody, even a murderer, can be made righteous by believing in Jesus.

5) Apocalypse--the destruction of all mankind and the salvation of God's believers in his new paradise.

6) Healing--the idea that diseases and conditions can be cured by prayer and laying on of hands.

7) Atonement--the idea that an innocent person can be punished in your stead for your sins.

8) Exorcism--the torturous treatment of the mentally ill to rid them of demons

9) Faith--the idea that believing in something without evidence or logic is a virtue.

10) The evil of divorce--the idea that divorce is only justified in the case of adultery.

11) martyrdom--the idea that dying for your religious belief is deserving of eternal reward.

12) prophets--yeah, that whole thing about people who hear voices speaking in their heads being prophets who should be listened to and obeyed.

13) The inferiority of women--the idea that wives should submit to their husbands.

Secular/leftist analogs:
1. Aryan race, authoritarian nationalism, etc. as "chosen people" justifying no end of horrors. Leftism in general is highly tribal, to the point of mob action against any who disagree and virtue signalling and terms ("woke") to "differentiate insiders from outsiders and subtly (or not so subtly) convey to both that insiders are inherently superior".
2. If you're black and disagree with the left, you are a heretical "coon", "uncle Tom", etc.. If anyone disagrees they are "morally suspect and often seen [described] as less than fully human".
3. If the left believes it's cause is morally just, it can excuse riots, property destruction, mobs, violence, etc.. Good thing they don't have the skill or the means to wage an actual war.
4. "Abortion rights" are a sacrament for the left, considered just as inviolable. Just look at all the outrage over Kavanaugh, just for the specter of overturning Roe.
That's not even what blasphemy means in Christianity.
5. Victim culture couldn't be a better analogy for "glorified suffering", where suffering somehow imparts moral authority.
6. Sex reassignment surgery couldn't mutilate the genitals any more if you tried.
Note the lack of citation of the supposed Bible story about a peace treaty.
7. No analogy on the left, but every heroic soldier, cop, firefighter, etc. who has died in the line of duty has made a blood sacrifice, just as Jesus consented to.
8. No analog for people who don't believe in moral responsibility/accountability.
9. See #8, with excuses made for #5.
10. No analog for people who think they're only animals.
11. Laughably, the secular left doesn't see how condom use is still a man controlling female fertility, just to avoid children instead of have them.
12. Scientism.

You say these are secularist analogs. I don't believe there is a creed for being a secularist. You just have to live in and value the real world. There are no secular teachings that all secular people believe in.

There doesn't need to be a creed for analogs to exist, although leftism is basically a religion nowadays.

(Nov 5, 2018 12:34 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: Here are some more bad ideas of religion that involve doctrine:

1) Original sin--the idea that humans inherit immorality and sin from Adam.

2) The evil of contraception--the idea that birth control is wrong.

3) Sodomy--the idea that gays are evil and should be killed.

4) Moral conversion--the idea that anybody, even a murderer, can be made righteous by believing in Jesus.

5) Apocalypse--the destruction of all mankind and the salvation of God's believers in his new paradise.

6) Healing--the idea that diseases and conditions can be cured by prayer and laying on of hands.

7) Atonement--the idea that an innocent person can be punished in your stead for your sins.

8) Exorcism--the torturous treatment of the mentally ill to rid them of demons

9) Faith--the idea that believing in something without evidence or logic is a virtue.

10) The evil of divorce--the idea that divorce is only justified in the case of adultery.

11) martyrdom--the idea that dying for your religious belief is deserving of eternal reward.

12) prophets--yeah, that whole thing about people who hear voices speaking in their heads being prophets who should be listened to and obeyed.

13) The inferiority of women--the idea that wives should submit to their husbands.

1. So you think humans are inherently good? They have no natural bad inclinations, like selfishness (a sin), to guard against?
3. Even today, sodomy presents greater health risks.
4. Forgiveness/grace does not entail an absolution of accountability, and moral conversion is only internal.
5. Apocalypse is obviously not unique to religion. Just look at paranoia about the singularity.
6. Mind over body is increasingly validated. For instance, the latest study that placebos work even when known to be such.
7. Atonement is about willing sacrifice, not punishment. Nor does it extend beyond Jesus.
9. We accept many mundane things on faith alone every day.
10. Broken families are demonstrably harmful to children and society.
11. Willingness to die for a noble purpose or principle is a trait shared by every true hero.
12. Visionaries have shaped history.
13. Inferiority?
"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself."
- Ephesians 5:25&28

Along the same lines as The Chosen, thanking God for something you consider good/fortunate (i.e.: win game) is strictly in the theists' domain. Who or what else, if not religion, is responsible for the 'Holier than Thou' attitude? 


And what of alchemy, faith healing,  or real magic (breaking of physical laws)?

I think even Christ would know that more wine at a wedding might not be a good idea. Today if you get your guests too sloshed then you open yourself up to a lawsuit, could even get someone killed. Wouldn't water have been the best thing for a bunch of dehydrated, intoxicated wedding guests and not more wine?

(Nov 5, 2018 12:59 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: I think even Christ would know that more wine at a wedding might not be a good idea. Today if you get your guests too sloshed then you open yourself up to a lawsuit, could even get someone killed. Wouldn't water have been the best thing for a bunch of dehydrated, intoxicated wedding guests and not more wine?

It's anyone's guess if ancient Jews boiled and drank hot water as much as the Chinese.[*] So on one hand, serving alcoholic beverages at a marriage or festive occasion in the ancient Middle East was probably safer than the water of certain local areas in terms of risk-lowering people getting sick en masse. OTOH, in heat the consumption of such might contribute to dehydration for a few. A combination of unreliable water quality and beer / wine might higgledy-piggledy still yield fewer GI maladies than otherwise.

"Whether written or oral, Jewish wine tradition is the result of longstanding cultural practice." --People Of The Vine

"Some 10 000 years ago [...] sedentary agricultural life [...] created a brand new relation between humans and water. Pathogens transmitted by contaminated water became a very serious health risk [...] The realization of the importance of pure water for people is evident already from the myths of ancient cultures. Religious cleanliness and water were important in various ancient cults." --A Brief History of Water and Health from Ancient Civilizations to Modern Times

"History is built on beer. We are back to a time where a safe and sterile source of hydration and nutrition is needed. Yeah. It is the staff of life. We were nomads. Beer made us settle and become farmers." --Jimbo, Fear The Walking Dead episode

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_heal...travel.pdf

- - - -

[*] How the ancient Chinese looked after their drinking water: First of all, the bottoms of wells were regularly dredged to keep the water clean. The cleaning of wells even became institutionalised as a feast day in some places. Then the inner walls of the wells were reinforced with ceramic bricks and tiles, to prevent soil and other impurities from falling into the water. Lastly, the openings of the wells were covered to safeguard against contamination from above ground. Despite all these precautions, contamination of water was unavoidable, especially in densely populated cities. Knowing early on that drinking dirty water made them sick, the Chinese boiled their water, and allowed the sediment to settle, before using it for cooking and drinking.

~

(Nov 5, 2018 12:34 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: Here are some more bad ideas of religion that involve doctrine:

1) Original sin--the idea that humans inherit immorality and sin from Adam.

I don't believe in a literal Adam, but it doesn't seem to be entirely wrong if we interpret 'Adam' to mean 'our distant evolutionary ancestry'.  

Quote:2) The evil of contraception--the idea that birth control is wrong.

Reducing our longer-term reproductive fitness doesn't seem like a great idea in evolutionary terms. It's just ceding the future to populations that produce more offspring.

In our modern world, wealth, education and female liberation are all seen as positives, yet they all contribute to lower birthrates below replacement levels. It's countries where these things are least prevalent that are growing fastest.

Quote:4) Moral conversion--the idea that anybody, even a murderer, can be made righteous by believing in Jesus.

Not all religions emphasize Jesus, so it's just stupid to identify 'religion' with 'Christianity'. But there is a point to it. What matters most in the ethical sense is what people do now, not what they did yesterday. No matter what you did yesterday, you can still get your life in order now, going forward. If somebody is a sinner, even a murderer, then the goal is to change.

Which brings up:

Quote:7) Atonement--the idea that an innocent person can be punished in your stead for your sins.

If we reject the idea that a person can simply reform after committing a great sin like murder, if we still believe that there needs to be some consequence for great transgression, then we are embracing the idea of atonement, the idea that there's a debt to be paid. The word 'atonement' comes from Old English, where it literally means 'at-one-ment'. It's about making things right, earning forgiveness and restoring social harmony (in an early medieval society in which blood feuds were a big danger).

Certainly the idea that somebody else can pay the price for you does seem kind of bogus. But we see the idea in many early cultures. In Islamic law, murder isn't a crime, it's a tort. The family of a murdered person can sue the family of the murderer for damages. Often that meant cash payment or the opportunity to kill the murderer or one of his close relatives. The latter has obvious ethical defects, but it served to defuse the lingering generations-long blood feuds between Bedouin tribes.

Quote:5) Apocalypse--the destruction of all mankind and the salvation of God's believers in his new paradise.

Apocalypse is a dream of revolutionaries everywhere. Just look at Marxism and its awaited 'Revolution' that would supposedly make everything right, end all social divisions (which 'historical materialism' attributed to class) and introduce a permanent Paradise. So the idea of a great triumphant battle when good will finally defeat evil isn't just a religious idea, it's a political-revolutionary idea.

Inter-testamental Judaism is where the apocalyptic ideas arose. It was a time after Alexander the Great's conquest of the Middle East, when Greek ideas were spreading everywhere and seemed to threaten traditional Judaism. Then the Romans conquered the area. That's the context of the book of Revelations and apocalyptic dreams led to two disastrous Jewish wars in 70CE and 130CE, revolutions against Rome that resulted in Jews being exiled from the 'Holy Land' for almost 2,000 years.

Quote:6) Healing--the idea that diseases and conditions can be cured by prayer and laying on of hands.

Not a bad idea when medical science didn't exist. Even today, more of health is psychosomatic than many people recognize. One's mental state has a big influence on one's health.

Quote:9) Faith--the idea that believing in something without evidence or logic is a virtue.

It isn't so much a virtue as a necessity.

Very little (almost nothing) in our lives or in our belief systems is solidly nailed-down. Yet we have to commit ourselves and behave as if we have it all figured out and know what to do.

Science seems rock-solid in many people's lives, and we see people fighting tooth-and-nail to preserve that faith on other boards. But science is based on many metaphysical assumptions that are going to be hard to conclusively justify. Not only metaphysical assumptions, but logical assumptions too. If we push too hard, it all seems to reduce to intuition and little more.