Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum

LOL! Invisible strings, invisible pullies, and now invisible string pullers in all directions. Man this is getting deep up in here! I think Occam's razor definitely applies here. A simple poltergeist explains everything.

(Apr 22, 2019 11:34 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr 22, 2019 11:25 PM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]Well, to be fair, he does state ''compelling evidence,'' not necessarily that he believes it's irrefutable.

So, you're a theist, Syne? Do you find that atheists expect you to support your position using evidence of some type?

"Compelling evidence" should be universally so. He claims it is even though it obviously is not.

If I were to claim that god was a "fact", atheists most certainly would require support of that claim. But I am well-aware that there is no compelling evidence for god, by design. And that's why I'm always honest that it is a belief.

That's fair. I've been off and on with my theist beliefs over the past couple of years, and I usually explain it in that way, exactly. That it's a belief. I can also say ''this is my Truth,'' but it might not be someone else's truth. 

I encourage you MR to take a haunted tour of any abandoned buildings, etc in your area and form your own conclusions. Even record your own experience for us to review, and share with us. I find some of these videos to be hoaxy. Is that a word? 

---

(Apr 22, 2019 11:56 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]LOL! Invisible strings, invisible pullies, and now invisible string pullers in all directions. Man this is getting deep up in here! I think Occam's razor definitely applies here. A simple poltergeist explains everything.

It does take a leap of faith to also ''believe'' that it could ALWAYS and ONLY be the work of humans. 

Quote:It does take a leap of faith to also ''believe'' that it could ALWAYS and ONLY be the work of humans.

It also takes a huge amount of cynicism to believe anybody who catches anything paranormal on video is always some ingenious lying hoaxer trying to pull one over on us. I have a lot more faith in humanity than that.

Quote:It does take a leap of faith to also ''believe'' that it could ALWAYS and ONLY be the work of humans. 

If that’s what you believe. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of respectability to ask a claimant to prove their claim. I’m not claiming human devices are at work here, only asking if possible. Trouble is that merely suggesting an alternative to ghosts is turned into a claim by the person who’s claim is the one under analysis. I can easily show how humans can produce the effects and can also report on an extensive track record of humans doing so. 

My beliefs are private, if I have any at all. That probably is all the encouragement someone needs to make a claim regarding my beliefs. I can shrug it off because I know they cannot know my beliefs with any certainty. 

There’s more than one reason people would want ghosts to be true and I think life after death is one of them along with some kind of metaphysical world alongside ours. I can understand that. 

Now, if MR could just answer question posed in post 40.

(Apr 22, 2019 11:56 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]LOL! Invisible strings, invisible pullies, and now invisible string pullers in all directions. Man this is getting deep up in here! I think Occam's razor definitely applies here. A simple poltergeist explains everything.

Honest people don't need to argue so many straw men.

Not invisible strings, just not apparent in low resolution videos. With HD video being so cheap nowadays, where are the videos of ghosts in HD? Not invisible pulleys, just out of view of a fixed camera. Pulleys don't require "pullers in all directions". Again, brush up on Archimedes technology. Then if you have time, look into video resolution.

"Poltergeist" is equivalent to saying "god did it". It offers no further explanation than the bare assertion it is.

(Apr 23, 2019 12:19 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:It does take a leap of faith to also ''believe'' that it could ALWAYS and ONLY be the work of humans.

It also takes a huge amount of cynicism to believe anybody who catches anything paranormal on video is always some ingenious lying hoaxer trying to pull one over on us. I have a lot more faith in humanity than that.

That statement is very telling. Unfortunately, while I have some incredible friends, there is a cynical side of me that doesn't trust people. I wish I could believe in humanity, like you do. That said though, I think there are some legit claims, to be fair. But, not those UFO videos you've posted. Those look beyond fake. 

I'd say somewhere in the middle, is a good place to be with these things. I'll apply Occam's Razor and then I'll analyze if the answer isn't obviously something potentially more plausible. Honestly, part of my personal skepticism with the doors of cabinets flying open like in the OP, it seems like a pretty strong ghost. Are they physically strong? lol I seriously didn't think that was possible, so that's where my doubt comes in with this particular video.

---

(Apr 23, 2019 12:39 AM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:It does take a leap of faith to also ''believe'' that it could ALWAYS and ONLY be the work of humans. 

If that’s what you believe. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of respectability to ask a claimant to prove their claim. I’m not claiming human devices are at work here, only asking if possible. Trouble is that merely suggesting an alternative to ghosts is turned into a claim by the person who’s claim is the one under analysis. I can easily show how humans can produce the effects and can also report on an extensive track record of humans doing so. 

My beliefs are private, if I have any at all. That probably is all the encouragement someone needs to make a claim regarding my beliefs. I can shrug it off because I know they cannot know my beliefs with any certainty. 

There’s more than one reason people would want ghosts to be true and I think life after death is one of them along with some kind of metaphysical world alongside ours. I can understand that. 

Now, if MR could just answer question posed in post 40.

I think your questions and points are genuine. Like I said above, I'm kind of in the middle with much of this. I don't discount it right off, but if I have to keep justifying things in my mind to make the point stick, then it's possible that I'm reaching for something to confirm my own beliefs. I believe in ghosts, but it truly depends on who is reporting such experiences. Celebrities seem to hold more weight with me for some reason, than just a home video posted on youtube.

(Apr 23, 2019 01:34 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, part of my personal skepticism with the doors of cabinets flying open like in the OP, it seems like a pretty strong ghost. Are they physically strong? lol I seriously didn't think that was possible, so that's where my doubt comes in with this particular video.

You should also note that doors fly open but they don't close, except when pulled open so hard they rebound. IOW, it's harder to use strings to close a cabinet door.

Quote:You should also note that doors fly open but they don't close, except when pulled open so hard they rebound. IOW, it's harder to use strings to close a cabinet door.

Or else poltergeists just aren't in the business of making kitchens look neater. Note the plates flying up in an arc out of the opened cabinet. That's nothing string pulling could ever accomplish.

(Apr 23, 2019 01:47 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr 23, 2019 01:34 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, part of my personal skepticism with the doors of cabinets flying open like in the OP, it seems like a pretty strong ghost. Are they physically strong? lol I seriously didn't think that was possible, so that's where my doubt comes in with this particular video.

You should also note that doors fly open but they don't close, except when pulled open so hard they rebound. IOW, it's harder to use strings to close a cabinet door.

lmao good points!

MR, what motivated your initial interest in the paranormal? I'm not sure I've ever asked you that.

(Apr 23, 2019 02:00 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr 23, 2019 01:47 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]

(Apr 23, 2019 01:34 AM)Leigha Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, part of my personal skepticism with the doors of cabinets flying open like in the OP, it seems like a pretty strong ghost. Are they physically strong? lol I seriously didn't think that was possible, so that's where my doubt comes in with this particular video.

You should also note that doors fly open but they don't close, except when pulled open so hard they rebound. IOW, it's harder to use strings to close a cabinet door.

lmao good points!

MR, what motivated your initial interest in the paranormal? I'm not sure I've ever asked you that.

Watching reality show documentaries in the 90's like Sightings got me started on it. Then around 2004 all the paranormal investigator shows started and well after that I was hooked. Since I've been on the internet I have been able to research numerous well-documented cases involving hauntings and poltergeists. There is no doubt in my mind that these things are real. Even though I don't have a clear understanding of what they exactly are. And yeah...poltergeists are pretty strong. They are often known to throw around chairs and sofas. Check out this violent poltergeist event caught on a soldier's computer camera:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMtBze0y...y7C6uTBnYo