Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum

In my own experience esp is quite real yet unpredictable as to when and where it occurs. I've had dreams that forsaw events the next day. I've had synchronicities with words and the TV. I've done the old thinking of a song and the radio plays it. And I've heard numerous accounts of mothers knowing when one of their kids are injured or even killed. Have you had any esp experiences in your own life? Here's an 8 minute video of some studies conducted by researcher Marilyn Schlitz proving esp is real. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yrytlonqa6o&feature=youtu.be

"Proving"? Where's the evidence then?

Correlation is not causation, much less proof.

(Dec 4, 2017 05:21 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]In my own experience esp is quite real yet unpredictable as to when and where it occurs. I've had dreams that forsaw events the next day. I've had synchronicities with words and the TV. I've done the old thinking of a song and the radio plays it. And I've heard numerous accounts of mothers knowing when one of their kids are injured or even killed. Have you had any esp experiences in your own life?

Occasionally had a precognitive dream (or what others would construe as that). But usually just infrequently occurring streaks of psychologically conjunctive events which actually aren't meaningful / significant outside the brain and efficaciously related.

Spurious correlations don't involve literal causal relationships between the measured activities. But there's still the uncanny oddity that any enduring reliability between the charted items might be used as a kind of temporary "rule" or means for one to the predict what will happen or is happening with the other. As long as the "prolonged coincidence" between the two persists for months, years, or decades.

Some outrageous or trivial pairings served here purely as introductory / tentative examples (imagine the plotted, curving lines of statistical time series graphics here):

(1) Total revenue generated by arcades matching very well with computer science doctorates awarded in the US between at least 2000 and 2009.[1]

(2) US crude oil imports from Norway jibing with the number of drivers killed in collision with railway trains between at least 1999 and 2009.[1]

(3) Divorce rate in Maine paralleling the consumption of margarine between at least 2000 and 2009.[1]

(4) National Spelling Bee agreeing with number of people killed by venomous spiders between at least 1999 and 2009.[1]

Similarly, superstitious practices like haruspex might have occasionally benefited from such specious, impermanent "lawfulness". And our personal encounters with randomly separated yet hours or days-long streaks of coincidences which paranormal folk might interpret and categorize under ESP, "the gods or the dead trying to tell me something", and whatever else.[2]

footnotes

[1] Potentially limited samples. That is, sustained coincidences might have lasted in the years afterward and stretch back years before, prior to anyone noticing a non-causal correlation and bothering to diagram such during a particular stretch.

[2] The Kant-modified ancient rationalist dichotomy of sensible domain (natural world) and intellectual domain (abstract world) might also recruit such to stealthily smuggle in the atemporal will of transcendent ego without violating natural governance.

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What do you call a dwarf clairvoyant prison escapee?


A small medium at large.

Who knows what causality is doing in the realm of psi. Does knowing a future event cause the past event of knowing it? Is one mind viewing events remotely now causally linked to those events? And what of coincidences? Jung called synchronicity an acausal connecting principle. How can two events happening at the same time have a causal effect on each other? This also goes to the issue of how a mind can interact with physical reality at all. How can a non-physical thing be affected by and have affects on physical things? Until we know more about what consciousness is, these mysteries will have to remain largely unsettled. But this lack of understanding need not deter us from recognizing the reality of psi phenomena any more than we need to understand anything else about consciousness to experience it's activities.

(Dec 5, 2017 06:57 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]Who knows what causality is doing in the realm of psi. Does knowing a future event cause the past event of knowing it? Is one mind viewing events remotely now causally linked to those events? And what of coincidences? Jung called synchronicity an acausal connecting principle. How can two events happening at the same time have a causal effect on each other? This also goes to the issue of how a mind can interact with physical reality at all. How can a non-physical thing be affected by and have affects on physical things? Until we know more about what consciousness is, these mysteries will have to remain largely unsettled. But this lack of understanding need not deter us from recognizing the reality of psi phenomena any more than we need to understand anything else about consciousness to experience it's activities.

great post !

i was pondering the scientific principal of proof having no time correlation.
thus all events occur all independantly all at the same time.
experiencing concepts of future as a predictable fact are thoughts & feelings, thus non scientifically provable.
along with the nature of proof only being possible once the event has taken place, and... at such a 'point' rather than a 'time'..
how does time relate to concepts of proof ?

it suggests that scientific proof by its very nature is not as much a law, but rather a statistical probabillity.


...which when we think about the speed of galaxys and their mass(observable) we clearly see there is something not matching what we deem to be "laws" of physics.
the "law" is only possible if we jam something in the blank space that doesnt make any sense(to the established law).
i like to ponder on breaking the sound barrier as an example of unknown anomaly.
flight controls being flipped into reverse and the shaking etc etc...
many thought it was impossible, however, it was just that science had not yet got that far.

Quote:it suggests that scientific proof by its very nature is not as much a law, but rather a statistical probabillity.

Just MHO opinion of course but I would wager the probability of people seeing/predicting future events is overwhelmingly less than the chances of people believing or convinced it can be done. To paraphrase Hume: All that's left of of human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity is to be skeptical, or at least cautious.......

Do I think science is right about all they claim to know? A very good chance there are some things not right, so the answer is no.

(Dec 4, 2017 05:21 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]Is ESP real?

I'm inclined to say 'no'.

But I'm not 100% sure about that and could be wrong. I don't currently believe in ESP, though I do accept it as a fairly low grade possibility.

(Dec 5, 2017 06:57 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]Who knows what causality is doing in the realm of psi. Does knowing a future event cause the past event of knowing it? Is one mind viewing events remotely now causally linked to those events? And what of coincidences? Jung called synchronicity an acausal connecting principle. How can two events happening at the same time have a causal effect on each other? This also goes to the issue of how a mind can interact with physical reality at all. How can a non-physical thing be affected by and have affects on physical things? Until we know more about what consciousness is, these mysteries will have to remain largely unsettled. But this lack of understanding need not deter us from recognizing the reality of psi phenomena any more than we need to understand anything else about consciousness to experience it's activities.

"In parapsychology, psi is the unknown factor in extrasensory perception and psychokinesis experiences that is not explained by known physical or biological mechanisms." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parapsycho...erminology

As a placeholder for the unknown, it's nonsensical to talk about the "realm of psi". As such, the "reality of psi phenomena" is pure fantasy or wishful thinking.

There is no knowing the future. There's only the subconscious mind making connections the conscious mind doesn't see. Coincidence is just a result of the law of truly large numbers.