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The sub's still lost. Doubt is growing whether Saturday's fragmentary radio signals had anything to do with the sub.

The US Navy says that it has sent four small undersea robots (unmanned underwater vehicles) with side-scan sonars used to scan and image the ocean floor. These are operated by a newly formed unit at Pearl Harbor in Hawaii. (They look like the things that were being used to look for the Malaysian airliner west of Australia.)

https://www.dvidshub.net/news/255886/us-...ine-search

The rescue crews should be there or will be arriving tomorrow. But they can't rescue the crew of the sub if nobody knows where the sub is.

(Nov 20, 2017 06:38 AM)Yazata Wrote: [ -> ]The sub's still lost. Doubt is growing whether Saturday's fragmentary radio signals had anything to do with the sub.

The US Navy says that it has sent four small undersea robots (unmanned underwater vehicles) with side-scan sonars used to scan and image the ocean floor. These are operated by a newly formed unit at Pearl Harbor in Hawaii. (They look like the things that were being used to look for the Malaysian airliner west of Australia.)

https://www.dvidshub.net/news/255886/us-...ine-search

The rescue crews should be there or will be arriving tomorrow. But they can't rescue the crew of the sub if nobody knows where the sub is.

fingers crossed.

i should imagine every sea-dog & their parrot will be thinking of the submariners.


these look cool. i wonder if they can easily fit them to be dropped by the P-3's or C-130's




pondering crazy inventions.
they could make a sugar capsule that breaks away & disolves after it has been air-dropped
could call them licorace all sorts, mixed with some semi electrostatic induction[so as the sugar capsule disolves in the sea water it sticks together as a lump which is bright red & glows in the dark and has some type of trackable isotope etc] (compounds/ jelly/glutens)dies & friendly radioactive isotopes in the luminescent glow in the dark coating would allow surface condition drift & wind effect tracking.

some type of skin on the outter hull




it looks soo bumpy and can easily see what appears to be patchwork panelling.

is that normal ? i would guess the more panels the more potential leaks.
pressure wise is it more bolts more strength ?
or is there a compounding negative gain factor somewhere under pressure ?

pondering...
if they were around 1600 feet or meters ?
would they be able to detect them ?

if they had of gone tot he faulklands would they have checked there already ?

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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42055676

Quote:Argentina's navy says its ARA San Juan submarine, which has been missing since Wednesday, reported a mechanical breakdown in its last communication.
The submarine, with 44 crew on board, disappeared 430km (270 miles) off the Argentine coast and no trace of it has been found.
"The vessel surfaced and it reported a breakdown," naval commander Gabriel Galeazzi said.
Capt Galeazzi spoke of a "short circuit" in the sub's batteries.
This is the first time that an official has mentioned the sub encountering mechanical problems.
The brother of a crew member had earlier told local media that in a message before communications were lost his sibling had mentioned that the vessel was having problems with its batteries.

The Argentines say that they have concluded that the seven fragmentary radio signals weren't from the sub.

And as RU reports in the post above, they are now admitting that the sub's last transmission reported short circuits in the batteries. (There had been reports earlier in Argentine local media about a fire in the battery compartment.) The sub had been scheduled to stay out for several more days, but was ordered to make for port after reporting the electrical problem. That was the last they heard of it.

I'm hoping that it was above Argentina's large continental shelf where the ocean is shallower. If the sub sank in the blue area in the map above, the water pressure would probably crush it.

Not looking good.

Argentina says that two of their search ships have heard sounds on their passive sonars that might conceivably come from somebody rapping on the metal hull of the submarine with a hammer or other tool. Submariners in bottomed subs will sometimes do that when they lack any other means of communication, in hopes that search ships' sonars will hear it. (Sounds pretty desperate and last-hopeish.)

On the other hand, the sounds may have another explanation. After the disappointment of the radio signals, nobody wants to jump to hasty conclusions.

The Argentines have asked a US Navy P-8 patrol plane in the search to come to the scene to drop sono-buoys and see what they think.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-argen...SKBN1DK1KO

http://wtkr.com/2017/11/20/banging-noise...cials-say/

I think that they should act on the assumption that this is the sub and put more listening devices in the water to narrow down the location and send down the unmanned underwater vehicles to take a look. The rescue guys are ready to go if they find it.

But... they should keep the search going at full strength on the chance this isn't the sub, since time is running out. The 44 crew only have limited air. The sub can last maybe a week submerged, and it's already been five days.

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(Nov 20, 2017 11:06 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote: [ -> ]

it looks soo bumpy and can easily see what appears to be patchwork panelling.

is that normal ?

Yes, I think so. (Of course I'm just a layman.) I've seen similar dimpling in photographs of the hulls of destroyers and frigates. I'm guessing that it comes from expansion and contraction of the metal plates. Navies (including the US and British) seem unconcerned when their ships look that way. I think that it's just superficial and cosmetic and doesn't effect the pressure hull underneath.

The conning tower (the fin-like structure on top that the periscopes come out of) isn't the pressure hull, which is more cylindrical and down below in the main body of the sub. I'm guessing that the interior of the conning tower is open to the sea and floods when the sub submerges, so that the pressure inside and outside balance and it doesn't crush.

(Nov 20, 2017 11:22 PM)Yazata Wrote: [ -> ]Argentina says that two of their search ships have heard sounds on their passive sonars that might conceivably come from somebody rapping on the metal hull of the submarine with a hammer or other tool. Submariners in bottomed subs will sometimes do that when they lack any other means of communication, in hopes that search ships' sonars will hear it. (Sounds pretty desperate and last-hopeish.)

On the other hand, the sounds may have another explanation. After the disappointment of the radio signals, nobody wants to jump to hasty conclusions.

The Argentines have asked a US Navy P-8 patrol plane in the search to come to the scene to drop sono-buoys and see what they think.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-argen...SKBN1DK1KO

http://wtkr.com/2017/11/20/banging-noise...cials-say/

I think that they should act on the assumption that this is the sub and put more listening devices in the water to narrow down the location and send down the unmanned underwater vehicles to take a look. The rescue guys are ready to go if they find it.

But... they should keep the search going at full strength on the chance this isn't the sub, since time is running out. The 44 crew only have limited air. The sub can last maybe a week submerged, and it's already been five days.

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(Nov 20, 2017 11:06 AM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote: [ -> ]

it looks soo bumpy and can easily see what appears to be patchwork panelling.

is that normal ?

Yes, I think so. (Of course I'm just a layman.) I've seen similar dimpling in photographs of the hulls of destroyers and frigates. I'm guessing that it comes from expansion and contraction of the metal plates. Navies (including the US and British) seem unconcerned when their ships look that way. I think that it's just superficial and cosmetic and doesn't effect the pressure hull underneath.

The conning tower (the fin-like structure on top that the periscopes come out of) isn't the pressure hull, which is more cylindrical and down below in the main body of the sub. I'm guessing that the interior of the conning tower is open to the sea and floods when the sub submerges, so that the pressure inside and outside balance and it doesn't crush.

Quote:But... they should keep the search going at full strength

agreed.

i wonder if they are using all possible types of electromagnetic and other such antenna ?
if the sub crew have had to make a transmitter up i wonder if it is outside what signals they may be looking for...

i gues they probably listen to as many as possible.

it occured to me they may not wish to waste air by sending something out in the torpedo tube. the compressed air in the bottles would be saved i would guess.
that would be quite a waste of valuable air.

Quote:Argentina missing submarine: Russia joins search operation

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42090497

Quote:Argentina has accepted help from Russia in the search for a military submarine that went missing with 44 crew in the southern Atlantic a week ago.
President Mauricio Macri said the Russian leader, Vladimir Putin, had phoned him to offer to deploy a survey vessel and crew with experience of similar operations.
More than a dozen countries, including the US, are taking part in the search.
The ARA San Juan vanished after it reported an electric breakdown.
It last made contact with naval officers on land last Wednesday.
A navy spokesman, Captain Enrique Balbi, said the search had now entered "a critical phase," amid fears that oxygen supplies may be running low.
He later told Argentine journalists that the Navy was investigating reports of a loud noise detected in the area a few hours after the ARA San Juan went missing.
He described it as a "hydro-acoustic anomaly" and refused to confirm whether there had been an explosion.

Any dangerous cargo onboard?

(Nov 23, 2017 01:05 PM)Zinjanthropos Wrote: [ -> ]Any dangerous cargo onboard?

Good question.

since your asking along those lines...
what i would rate as stitistically most probable would be a fault in the re-fit.
the chance of a peice of faulty steel being put somewhere... a weld that just didnt make but looked good.
being pessermistic i would suggest
the more re-fit work the higher the chance of something being faulty.
im not suggesting the re-fit people have done something wrong.
i am stating what i have heard about steel, that there is always a chance of something having an inherant fault line or blemish in it.


after reading a couple of articles on the false or incorrect rating put on steeli would be following the parts & steel lines to see if there has been a botch up of types of steel or types of welding etc.

maybe they just had a electrical fault that was a critical failure.
i dont know.
running some thoughts on the possible sound that was reported to have been heard...
faulty gas bottle.. ?
cooker...fridge...tank fo some type. there must be a wide variety of applicances that could potentially have an explosive potential fault triggering a structural collapse ?


what about some type of internal breach of a main ballast tank partially flooding the interior resulting in them sitting near waist deep in water ?