Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum

I always give people second chances and the benefit of the doubt.  Probably because I’m shy and feel that people always misjudge me.  

Well, remember my neighbor that I was telling you about earlier?  The one that made the "I can’t have sex with my dog" comment.  He owns a home in New York, Italy, Florida, and here.  He rotates according to the weather.  He's only here for about 3 months out of the year.  He just returned and called me last night to thank me for something.  We had a nice conversation and I even thought about giving him a second chance.  He spends a lot of time with his sister, which made me think that maybe a friendship is possible. Acquaintances are a dime a dozen, but good friends are rare.

However, my dentist, who is single, was telling me and his assistants about some drama that he was having with one of his best friends, who happens to be a female.  It sounded to me like he had a crush on her.  I told him that I thought a platonic intimate relationship with the opposite sex was impossible. He disagreed because he has four sisters, but there’s a huge difference between familial love and platonic love.  The emotional intimacy of platonic love with the opposite sex cannot last once you’ve entered into a romantic relationship with someone else.  One of his assistants said that she’s had a male best friend since childhood, but he had confessed his love for her at one time.  The other one, who is a little older, said the she’s had one, too, but as soon as the dentist left the room, she confessed that it was once a sexual relationship.  Even though they were both married now, she said that he’d jump into bed with her again, if he ever got the chance.  They both started laughing, agreed with me, and then said, "Yes, all men are dogs."

My question isn’t about male/female friendships, though.  I was wondering about snap decisions. How many times have you thought that someone was snooty, but later found out that they were simply shy?

I’ve been reading "Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking".  Parts of it reminded me of Magical Realist's and Syne's go-rounds with racism.

"I hope that after reading this far, you recognize the characteristic signs of judgment’s fragility. From experience, we gain a powerful gift, the ability to act instinctively, in the moment. But — and this is one of the lessons I tried very hard to impart in Blink — it is easy to disrupt this gift."

So, what do you think?

How much can you really tell about a person from their appearance?

When should we draw on our instincts and when should we rely on conscious analysis?

What do you do?  Do you trust your gut instincts?

(Jun 14, 2017 05:09 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]I always give people second chances and the benefit of the doubt.  Probably because I’m shy and feel that people always misjudge me.  

Well, remember my neighbor that I was telling you about earlier?  The one that made the "I can’t have sex with my dog" comment.  He owns a home in New York, Italy, Florida, and here.  He rotates according to the weather.  He's only here for about 3 months out of the year.  He just returned and called me last night to thank me for something.  We had a nice conversation and I even thought about giving him a second chance.  He spends a lot of time with his sister, which made me think that maybe a friendship is possible. Acquaintances are a dime a dozen, but good friends are rare.

However, my dentist, who is single, was telling me and his assistants about some drama that he was having with one of his best friends, who happens to be a female.  It sounded to me like he had a crush on her.  I told him that I thought a platonic intimate relationship with the opposite sex was impossible. He disagreed because he has four sisters, but there’s a huge difference between familial love and platonic love.  The emotional intimacy of platonic love with the opposite sex cannot last once you’ve entered into a romantic relationship with someone else.  One of his assistants said that she’s had a male best friend since childhood, but he had confessed his love for her at one time.  The other one, who is a little older, said the she’s had one, too, but as soon as the dentist left the room, she confessed that it was once a sexual relationship.  Even though they were both married now, she said that he’d jump into bed with her again, if he ever got the chance.  They both started laughing, agreed with me, and then said, "Yes, all men are dogs."

My question isn’t about male/female friendships, though.  I was wondering about snap decisions. How many times have you thought that someone was snooty, but later found out that they were simply shy?

I’ve been reading "Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking".  Parts of it reminded me of Magical Realist's and Syne's go-rounds with racism.

"I hope that after reading this far, you recognize the characteristic signs of judgment’s fragility. From experience, we gain a powerful gift, the ability to act instinctively, in the moment. But — and this is one of the lessons I tried very hard to impart in Blink — it is easy to disrupt this gift."

So, what do you think?

How much can you really tell about a person from their appearance?

When should we draw on our instincts and when should we rely on conscious analysis?

What do you do?  Do you trust your gut instincts?

is this question about you ?
(moral judgements based on appearance Vs conversations you percieve yourself to be an observer in?)

Quote:How much can you really tell about a person from their appearance?

how much can you tell about a person from a conversation ?
(implied rules, do's &Don't's self limitations etc etc etc...)

(Jun 14, 2017 06:20 PM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote: [ -> ]is this question about you ?
(moral judgements based on appearance Vs conversations you percieve yourself to be an observer in?)

Quote:How much can you really tell about a person from their appearance?

how much can you tell about a person from a conversation ?
(implied rules, do's &Don't's self limitations etc etc etc...)

Sorry. It's not an easy question. I think you'd have to read "Blink" in order to answer it.

No worries, though. Good day to you, RU.

Is that from the series of Blink books? Like Blink and You'll Miss It or Blink and It's Gone. Just kidding. Too bad there's no EDIT button in realtime conversation. On a forum you should be able to rethink, just do it before someone else reads it. Currently a luxury we have here.

(Jun 14, 2017 05:09 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]So, what do you think? How much can you really tell about a person from their appearance? When should we draw on our instincts and when should we rely on conscious analysis? What do you do?  Do you trust your gut instincts?

To lessen risk, I usually go on preservation instincts until reason and more information imply something otherwise. But there are exceptions in terms of how quickly I might proceed, based on a feel or measure of the sensitivity of the other person -- how they might react to either low-key evasive actions or "defusing of the situation" tactics. Like whether or not one can politely, incrementally, and smoothly maneuver away from a character who seems initially commercially opportunistic or outright shady / seedy in terms of appearance and behavior.

- - -

(Jun 14, 2017 05:09 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ][...] Well, remember my neighbor that I was telling you about earlier?  The one that made the "I can’t have sex with my dog" comment.  He owns a home in New York, Italy, Florida, and here.  He rotates according to the weather.  He's only here for about 3 months out of the year.  He just returned and called me last night to thank me for something.  We had a nice conversation and I even thought about giving him a second chance.  He spends a lot of time with his sister, which made me think that maybe a friendship is possible. Acquaintances are a dime a dozen, but good friends are rare.

However, my dentist, who is single, was telling me and his assistants about some drama that he was having with one of his best friends, who happens to be a female.  It sounded to me like he had a crush on her.  I told him that I thought a platonic intimate relationship with the opposite sex was impossible. He disagreed because he has four sisters, but there’s a huge difference between familial love and platonic love.  The emotional intimacy of platonic love with the opposite sex cannot last once you’ve entered into a romantic relationship with someone else.  One of his assistants said that she’s had a male best friend since childhood, but he had confessed his love for her at one time.  The other one, who is a little older, said the she’s had one, too, but as soon as the dentist left the room, she confessed that it was once a sexual relationship.  Even though they were both married now, she said that he’d jump into bed with her again, if he ever got the chance.  They both started laughing, agreed with me, and then said, "Yes, all men are dogs."

In the course of trying to remember any "celibate" friendships from earlier years that at least superficially seemed to be successful at that, all I can recall are the ones where the guy was extremely overweight. Plus it always seemed to be two or three girls who were mutual friends themselves hanging out with the fun obese guy at places, social functions and events, rather than just one unaccompanied.

There was a couple of opposite gender buddies who claimed they had only had sex a couple of times, and quit because it felt like incest to them. Maybe that was the nearest to the real deal that surfaces from memory.

Due to potential closet circumstances, never (knowingly) encountered back then the legendary straight girl slash gay boy friendship. Such as Harper Lee and Truman Capote exemplified in real life[*], of the old school era. Or which Sue Heck and Brad fictionally instantiate on "The Middle". But doubtless plenty of those in the waterfront metroplexes of today, or in flyover country now.

- - -

[*] That reputedly went downhill after she won the Pulitzer Prize. EDIT: Ah, and in order to make any partial sense, I forgot to mention that I belonged to the group who considered her asexual at most, rather than lesbian. She had a crush on Maurice Crain. But who knows...

(Jun 15, 2017 07:30 AM)C C Wrote: [ -> ]In the course of trying to remember any "celibate" friendships from earlier years that at least superficially seemed to be successful at that, all I can recall are the ones where the guy was extremely overweight. Plus it always seemed to be two or three girls who were mutual friends themselves hanging out with the fun obese guy at places, social functions and events, rather than just one unaccompanied.

There was a couple of opposite gender buddies who claimed they had only had sex a couple of times, and quit because it felt like incest to them. Maybe that was the nearest to the real deal that surfaces from memory.

Due to potential closet circumstances, never (knowingly) encountered back then the legendary straight girl slash gay boy friendship. Such as Harper Lee and Truman Capote exemplified in real life
[*], of the old school era. Or which Sue Heck and Brad fictionally instantiate on "The Middle". But doubtless plenty of those in the waterfront metroplexes of today, or in flyover country now.  

- - -

[*]That reputedly went downhill after she won the Pulitzer Prize. EDIT: Ah, and in order to make any partial sense, I forgot to mention that I belonged to the group who considered her asexual at most, rather than lesbian. She had a crush on Maurice Crain. But who knows...

You know, C C, when you extract the most important points from a text and rewrite them in your own words, your summarizing skills shine.

I think that the only thing nearest to the real deal is the straight girl slash gay boy friendship.  

A fraud and a liar?  Hmm...I guess it's something that I'll just have to learn to accept.  

Quote:I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you know that wonderful male friend who offers you a shoulder to cry on or company when you can’t get a date on a Saturday night?

The one you are absolutely certain has no sexual interest in you whatsoever? That man is a liar. That man is a cheat.

He is a con man guilty of friendship fraud.

I know sophisticated and worldly women — married and single — who will say of their male friends: ‘Oh, he never thinks of me in that way.’ How naive they are!

It would be wonderful if men could be friends with a woman without ever imagining what it would be like to sleep with them. But then we wouldn’t be men. source

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(Jun 14, 2017 10:40 PM)C C Wrote: [ -> ]To lessen risk, I usually go on preservation instincts until reason and more information imply something otherwise. But there are exceptions in terms of how quickly I might proceed, based on a feel or measure of the sensitivity of the other person -- how they might react to either low-key evasive actions or "defusing of the situation" tactics. Like whether or not one can politely, incrementally, and smoothly maneuver away from a character who seems initially commercially opportunistic or outright shady / seedy in terms of appearance and behavior.

- - -

Ditto!

In regards to the freewill portion of it, I think we’re still resorting to some type of dualism.  Not so much the mind-body problem, but the conscious vs. the unconscious mind. Malcolm Gladwell mentions Antonio Damasio's work.  I think we have the tendency to categorize and separate things that work in harmony, e.g., emotion vs. logic, consciousness vs. unconsciousness, etc.  

Jerry Coyne maintains that if a decision is unconscious then that is no free will, which involves conscious decisions.  I disagree.  I think that in and of itself is dualism.  I think that we do have free will.

Quote:The results from these experiments are, obviously, quite disturbing. They suggest that what we think of as free will is largely an illusion: much of the time, we are simply operating on automatic pilot, and the way we think and act — and how well we think and act on the spur of the moment — are a lot more susceptible to outside influences than we realize. But there is also, I think, a significant advantage to how secretly the unconscious does its work.

Your unconscious, in this sense, is acting as a kind of mental valet. It is taking care of all the minor mental details in your life. It is keeping tabs on everything going on around you and making sure you’re acting appropriately, while leaving you free to concentrate on the main problem at hand. source

Quote:The worldview to which I previously referred was founded by the thinking of Isaac Newton and Renee Descartes in the 17th century. Their philosophies and insights set in motion our dependence upon analysis and measurement, which taught us that by drilling down to the source, so to speak, we could control and master our lives and our environment. Rational and analytical thinking became the foundation of this worldview. This led to many remarkable advances with regard to modernization of society. Their teaching also had us seek, if not worship, predictability and certainty, which while fruitful in moderation, became pathological in the extreme. It is from this over reliance upon analytical and rational thinking that the epidemic of anxiety became inevitable. Analyzing should be a tool in our mind’s toolbox, but when it’s the only one we reach for, we suffer tragic consequences. Our mandate to subject human experience and emotions solely to rational and analytical judgment in and of itself excoriates us.

This imperative, which relentlessly seeks predictability and certainty, has caused us to lose our way. Its unintended consequence has been anxiety, as our minds are tethered to assuring proper outcomes as we seek to avoid “mistakes.” This indoctrination has resulted in excessive worrying, with an ensuing loss of wonder, awe, and imagination that are essential to a balanced and harmonious life. We have lost much of what it means to be human. The result is an existential crisis from which anxiety surfaces. source