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Yikes!  Confused

"The Johnson Amendment is a provision in the U.S. tax code that prohibits all 501©(3) non-profit organizations from endorsing or opposing political candidates. 501©(3) organizations are the most common type of nonprofit organization in the United States, ranging from charitable foundations to universities and churches. The amendment is named for then-Senator Lyndon B. Johnson of Texas.

In recent years, many Republicans, including President Donald Trump, have sought to repeal it, arguing that it restricts the free speech rights of churches and other religious groups. Repeal has been criticized because churches have fewer reporting requirements than other non-profit organizations, and because it would effectively make political contributions tax-deductible. On May 4, 2017, President Donald Trump signed an executive order easing the Johnson Amendment's restrictions."

Johnson Amendment

"President Donald Trump marks his first National Prayer Day in the White House by signing an executive order on religious liberty that is expected to severely weaken enforcement of one of the country’s foremost regulations separating church and state."—Newsweek

There is no such thing as a Constitutional separation of church and state, so such regulatory policies have no solid basis, especially considering they violate the First Amendment (in both the freedom of speech and the free exercise of religion). Since tax exemption is part and parcel of the free exercise clause, it's irrational to think you can essentially use the First Amendment to violate the someone's First Amendment rights.

Don't like it? Make your own non-profit.
(May 5, 2017 12:56 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]There is no such thing as a Constitutional separation of church and state, so such regulatory policies have no solid basis, especially considering they violate the First Amendment (in both the freedom of speech and the free exercise of religion). Since tax exemption is part and parcel of the free exercise clause, it's irrational to think you can essentially use the First Amendment to violate the someone's First Amendment rights.

Don't like it? Make your own non-profit.

I would want the money to go to the charity. They have a right to speech, but they should have no rights to subsidized speech.

It will be a battle between the Catholics and Mormons. May the best mook win.

Someday, Syne, I’ll convince you to help me make an atheist promo video, you'll see. Wink
(May 5, 2017 12:56 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Since tax exemption is part and parcel of the free exercise clause, it's irrational to think you can essentially use the First Amendment to violate the someone's First Amendment rights.

It’s not a violation of their First Amendment rights.  

In light of the fact that tax exemption is a privilege, a matter of grace rather than right, we hold that the limitations contained in section 501c(3) withholding exemption from nonprofit corporations do not deprive Christian Echoes of its constitutionally guaranteed right of freedom of speech. 
The Constitutional Issue In Regan v. Taxation with Representation of Washington, 461 U.S. 540 (1983)


Rich Christians sacrificing the lives of starving children to line the pockets of politicians. Nice.  Dodgy

These restrictions were in place to ensure that non-profit organizations, including religious institutions, operate for the social and public benefit purposes for which they were created and not for partisan interests or private benefit.

Daniel Kurtz, former head of the Charities Bureau at the Office of the New York State Attorney General and currently a partner at the law firm Pryor Cashman, gave this statement. 

"I think it will do nothing good. It’s been very good for the nonprofit world not to get embroiled in partisan politics. People are going to make decisions about supporting charities based on which side they’re on which issue. I think it will be very destructive."

Tim Delaney, president of the National Council of Nonprofits, released the following statement.

"Nonpartisanship is vital to the work of charitable nonprofits. It enables organizations to address community challenges, and invites the problem-solving skills of all residents, without the distractions of party labels and the caustic partisanship that is bedeviling our country. Indeed, current law is the reason that charitable nonprofits are safe havens from politics, a place where people can come together to actually solve community problems rather than just posture and remain torn apart.

Although all of these latest proposals are couched in terms relating to churches, in truth the underlying law is Section 501©(3) in the Tax Code, which relates to all charitable nonprofits and foundations. For more than six decades, the law now being attacked has protected charitable nonprofits and foundations from being pressured by politicians and paid political operatives to divert their time and resources away from advancing their missions in local communities. That law has a proven track record of working well to protect against politicization.

Nonprofits are already free to exercise their First Amendment rights to advocate for their missions. Allowing political operatives to push for endorsements would put nonprofits in a position where they become known as Democratic charities or Republican charities and put missions at risk. “Furthermore, those who donate to nonprofits want those contributions to go toward advancing the mission, not toward advancing the careers of politicians or lining the pockets of political consultants. Getting involved in supporting or opposing candidates will have a chilling effect on contributions on which many nonprofits rely." 
Source

Just think of the all the election money flowing through tax-exempt nonprofits and charitable assets being diverted to campaign activities.  Dodgy
(May 5, 2017 12:02 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]Yikes!  Confused  "The Johnson Amendment is a provision in the U.S. tax code that prohibits all 501©(3) non-profit organizations from endorsing or opposing political candidates. 501©(3) organizations are the most common type of nonprofit organization in the United States, ranging from charitable foundations to universities and churches. The amendment is named for then-Senator Lyndon B. Johnson of Texas.


Curiously, Johnson's sponsorship for the "amendment" fell out of his wrangling with anti-communist factions within his own party (or those providing funds and support to certain candidates). He had no qualms about securing help from churches himself, and so the latter was somewhat unintended collateral damage.

The real aim of the proposal was to stifle election rival Dudley Dougherty, inhibit the CCG's fund-raising endeavors against him, and rattle a Red Scare millionaire's massive radio / TV / literature efforts which were outputted by his likewise tax-exempt organization (Facts Forum). Or if its impact upon Johnson's immediate situation during that voting battle was limited, then to hinder any future, continued threats to his campaigns from the McCarthyism front.

Religious institutions over the decades have arguably found tactics for circumventing the prohibition, as well as watchdogs just outright ignoring such violations on many occasions. So perhaps that was part of Johnson's calculations as well, hoping that the "collateral damage" would be minor. Though the author here deems that its consequences upon churches was something that simply sailed over his and other politician's heads at the time -- they didn't take into account how it would inhibit their support from that area. Which was perhaps just as well in the long run, as they eventually lost that name-source crowd of the Bible Belt to the Republicans via changes over ensuing years.

- - - - - - -

Patrick L. O’Daniel: [...] As these examples indicate, there is arguably widespread non-compliance with the prohibition and certainly no groundswell of public support for it. Further, these instances merely represent political activity by churches that was actually reported. One surmises that many other instances occurred which escaped the scrutiny of the press. One also surmises that this level of activity indicates a certain slackness of enforcement of the prohibition by the Internal Revenue Service.

An examination of the history of the prohibition indicates that it was passed in 1954 with little thought by Congress, or even by its sponsor, the Democrat Minority Leader (soon to be Majority Leader), Senator Lyndon Baines Johnson, concerning its effect on churches. In any event, the prohibition was not the product of a change in public opinion, but instead appears to have been proposed by Johnson as a way to squelch certain unsavory campaign tactics targeted at him by a few tax-exempt entities.

[...] Although Johnson was not opposed to using churches to advance his own political interests, he did seek to prevent ideological, tax-exempt organizations from funding McCarthyite candidates including his opponent in the Democratic primary, Dudley Dougherty. The illumination of these motivations is done through the extensive use of President Johnson’s personal papers and provides a more complete understanding of the contours of the prohibition.

[...] There is no evidence that a religious element played a significant part in Johnson’s decision to ban certain tax-exempt entities—including churches—from intervening in support of a political candidate. Rather, Johnson saw a cabal of national conservative forces, led by tax-exempt educational entities fueled by corporate donations, arrayed against him and wanted to put a stop to the meddling of these foreign interlopers—chief among these being CCG. [...]

In 1954, Texas was basically a one-party state dominated by the Democrat Party, so that the primary election scheduled on July 24, 1954, to choose the Democrat candidate became the de facto general election. Johnson drew as his opponent in the primary the relatively young and unknown thirty-year-old, first-term state representative from Beeville, Dudley Dougherty. This “young man from Beeville,” as Johnson called him in correspondence, projected the persona of a rabid, fire-breathing anti-communist. In a long, hand-written letter that he sent to Johnson after his defeat, Dougherty ruefully acknowledged, “I had a rather unhappy role to play, that of ultraconservative." Dougherty also had a religious role to play: he was Catholic and Johnson was protestant.

The year 1954 saw McCarthyism at its height and Texas was no exception to its allure. [...] Dallas millionaire, H.L. Hunt, had geared up a conservative tax-exempt organization, Facts Forum, which produced radio and television programs as well as books and other literature espousing a hard anti-communist line [...] Facts Forum, however, was not the only prominent tax-exempt organization trumpeting McCarthyism: the Committee for Constitutional Government (CCG) also joined the fray [...] CCG was adamantly opposed to Johnson’s election and vociferously supported Dougherty—and Johnson suspected that Facts Forum, in spite of its pledge not to involve itself in political campaigns, was clandestinely in support of Dougherty, as well.

[...] With this backdrop concerning the political events unfolding during the first half of 1954 and Johnson’s mental outlook regarding the upcoming election, one can better understand the motivations surrounding Johnson’s amendment to the Code preventing intervention in a political campaign by tax-exempt entities. Two tax-exempt organizations, in particular, drew his attention during the campaign: Facts Forum and CCG. It is apparent from both inter- and intra-office correspondence that both these organizations figured prominently in his decision to enact the prohibition.

Hunt started the tax-exempt organization Facts Forum in 1951 as a platform dedicated to the dissemination of his conservative views, which he disingenuously labeled as “constructive.” Hunt, through this organization, soon acquired a stature which his opponents viewed with alarm. [...] As discussed, Hunt’s Texas-based outfit was not the only tax-exempt entity causing problems for Johnson. [...] Perhaps most infuriating to Johnson was that CCG was raising funds from corporate contributors and then using those funds to wage war against his campaign. This tactic, too, was apparently typical of CCG which had raised funds from corporate donors for years, in apparent violation of the Corrupt Practices Act, with little fear of reprisal because of the lax enforcement of the law.

[...] On July 2, 1954, the House Special Committee to Investigate Tax-Exempt Foundations ended its deliberations. That same day, Johnson offered his amendment on the Senate floor, banning such tax-exempt entities [...] from participating in a political campaign by supporting a political candidate. The next day’s front page of the Washington Post carried an article that described the amendment as one that “would withdraw tax-free status from any foundations or other organizations that attempt to ‘influence legislation’ or dabble in politics in behalf of any candidate for public office.”

[...] By the end of his campaign, Johnson had effectively cowed these organizations, with CCG in particular [...] Further, Johnson also wanted to stomp out a potential threat in his own back yard that might arise in the guise of H.L. Hunt’s Facts Forum. Even though Siegel’s memorandum makes clear that Facts Forum, as it was then operating, would not be affected by the prohibition, Hunt never again sought to cross Johnson through the organization. Finally, Johnson was still smarting from the innuendo surrounding the 1948 election; and Coke Stevenson’s support for Dougherty and continued airing of charges in the national media from that prior election simply added to the already volatile mixture that led to the enactment of the prohibition.

Although the involvement of churches in political campaigns did not spur Johnson’s amendment, such involvement did figure in his actual candidacy. One might discount the claim, made in the heat of the campaign, “that religious politics are being used against Senator Johnson.” Clearly, however, there was a religious element to the 1954 election. Certainly, Johnson did not disdain to use religion as a wedge when it suited his purposes or to neutralize certain religious elements that might prove to be potentially hostile. Further, Dougherty was very much aware that his Catholicism would be an impediment to winning office in Texas, a predominantly Protestant state, and was quite proud of the showing he was able to make in spite of such a perceived disability. It appears that Dougherty was one of the first Catholics to run for state-wide office in the State of Texas, and that a lesson that may be drawn today from his quixotic campaign is the impossibility of unraveling the interweaving of politics and religion.

In the face of lackluster opposition by the Internal Revenue Service, the Democrats and Republicans—harkening back to the Buffs and the Blues—continue to use the literal bully pulpits of the churches to preach to the party faithful. Lyndon Johnson, as the sponsor of the amendment that made such conduct problematic, clearly had no compunction against using such tactics to advance his own political candidacy. When he pushed through the prohibition, he was not acting in response to any public outcry against such activities. Indeed, there is no indication of any concern expressed regarding such politicking. Little has changed since that time—except now some churches feel compelled to pay lip service to Johnson’s prohibition, one that is increasingly becoming “more honored in the breach than the observance.” --MORE HONORED IN THE BREACH:A HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE OF THE PERMEABLE IRS PROHIBITION ON CAMPAIGNING BY CHURCHES

= = = = = = = =

Other interesting excerpts

[...] As derisively noted by Johnson, it seemed that most of Dougherty’s support came from outside of the State. Indeed, although unsuccessful in securing endorsements from Texas newspapers and periodicals, Dougherty did receive an endorsement from the notorious anti-semite, Robert H. Williams [...] from Santa Ana, California.  [...] Dougherty was also the beneficiary of the mass-mailing of a story by Willis Ballinger under the auspices of the Washington, D.C.-based group, Human Events [...]

Johnson—worried about the conservative tenor of the Texas electorate [...] privately took Dougherty very seriously, [...] Many of Johnson’s tactics consisted of the typical parry-and-thrust of campaigning  [...] However, other tactics were of a different character which reflected a more aggressive campaigning style and indicated that Johnson was willing to pursue a number of different tactics to rout his opponent. Dougherty, in a letter written to Johnson after his defeat, explained, in a sardonic manner, his use of “vigorous artillery” against Johnson “[s]ince some of your people [...] were kind enough to wire tap my home.”

[...] Robert L. Clark, a Dallas attorney and Johnson confidante, 60 was associated in activities directly concerning church involvement in the political campaign. He sent a copy of a typed letter to Senator Johnson’s office a few days prior to the July 24 primary that was signed by “Rev. Lewis L. Shoptaw” and addressed “Dear Fellow Minister”:

I regret having to write you and other good pastors a letter concerning politics. I do not think that under ordinary circumstances any Minister of the Gospel should take part in any political campaign, but I feel compelled to do this because I think you feel as I do, that we must always be alert and viligant [sic] in any issue which seeks to combine Church and State. I want to call your attention to the fact that there definitely is a campaign being waged against our fine Texas Senator Lyndon B. Johnson on religious grounds. Lyndon Johnson is protestant. His opponent belongs to the Roman Catholic faith. I have no criticism as to his opponent’s religious belief but I am very much alarmed at the fact that religious politics are being used against Senator Johnson. An impartial state-wide poll indicates that the Roman Catholic Mexican vote has been organized against him. In small communities in North, Central and South Texas, where German, Czechs and Polish citizens reside, an overwhelming vote against Senator Johnson is indicated in this very thorough poll. I am not asking you to do anything politically but I am very humbly warning you that this under-cover attack on a fine Christian Senator does exist. I hope that you will regard this letter as entirely confidential and may the Good Lord Bless you for the fine work you are carrying on for protestant Christianity.

I don’t think that anyone is really concerned about the verbal support (the so-called free speech), C C. That’s been happening for years. They’re concerned about the financial support.

Political contributions should not be treated as tax deductible charitable contributions. Businesses have an interest in the outcome of elections, as well, but they’re not allowed to claim deductions for anything incurred in connection with influencing legislation. No campaign expenses are deductible that I know of. If non-profit organizations are allowed to pay for advertising or any other expenses earmarked for political purposes, and hidden under a tax-exempt cloak, then corporations, big and small, should be granted the same option.

Supposedly, the Free Speech Fairness Act would prevent this from happening.

The bill fixes but does not repeal the Johnson Amendment.

"The bill does not allow non-profit organizations or churches to engage in political activities outside the normal scope of their tax exempt work or contribute to political activities or candidates."

Money with strings attached? Aren’t we trying to curb political corruption?
(May 5, 2017 01:47 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]They have a right to speech, but they should have no rights to subsidized speech.
...
Someday, Syne, I’ll convince you to help me make an atheist promo video, you'll see.
It's not subsidized speech, it's speech free of Damocles hammer of taxation. You really don't think the IRS weaponized to deny non-profit status, under Obama, couldn't be more readily weaponized to harass people with regular audits, asset freezes, etc.? Hell, I always file a 1040EZ and I've been audited twice (due to clerical errors). Nor do you seem to know that income tax is a communist idea (Carl Marx's Das Kapital), not originally part of US law.

The Free Exercise Clause reserves the right of American citizens to accept any religious belief and engage in religious rituals. The wording in the free-exercise clauses of state constitutions that religious “[o]pinion, expression of opinion, and practice were all expressly protected” by the Free Exercise Clause.[1] The clause protects not just religious beliefs but actions made on behalf of those beliefs. More importantly, the wording of state constitutions suggest that “free exercise envisions religiously compelled exemptions from at least some generally applicable laws.”[2] The Free Exercise Clause not only protects religious belief and expression; it also seems to allow for violation of laws, as long as that violation is made for religious reasons. In the terms of economc theory, the Free Exercise Clause promotes a free religious market by precluding taxation of religious activities by minority sects.[3]
- https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/free_exercise_clause

The same protections would allow atheist groups to form non-profits and compete freely in the marketplace of ideologies...except they're not competitive and never can manage to admit they have one (so they just seek to win by penalizing their opponents...just like Johnson sought to do). Rolleyes
(May 5, 2017 04:52 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]
(May 5, 2017 12:56 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Since tax exemption is part and parcel of the free exercise clause, it's irrational to think you can essentially use the First Amendment to violate the someone's First Amendment rights.

It’s not a violation of their First Amendment rights.  

In light of the fact that tax exemption is a privilege, a matter of grace rather than right, we hold that the limitations contained in section 501c(3) withholding exemption from nonprofit corporations do not deprive Christian Echoes of its constitutionally guaranteed right of freedom of speech. 
The Constitutional Issue In Regan v. Taxation with Representation of Washington, 461 U.S. 540 (1983)


Rich Christians sacrificing the lives of starving children to line the pockets of politicians. Nice.  Dodgy

These restrictions were in place to ensure that non-profit organizations, including religious institutions, operate for the social and public benefit purposes for which they were created and not for partisan interests or private benefit.

Daniel Kurtz, former head of the Charities Bureau at the Office of the New York State Attorney General and currently a partner at the law firm Pryor Cashman, gave this statement. 

"I think it will do nothing good. It’s been very good for the nonprofit world not to get embroiled in partisan politics. People are going to make decisions about supporting charities based on which side they’re on which issue. I think it will be very destructive."

Tim Delaney, president of the National Council of Nonprofits, released the following statement.

"Nonpartisanship is vital to the work of charitable nonprofits. It enables organizations to address community challenges, and invites the problem-solving skills of all residents, without the distractions of party labels and the caustic partisanship that is bedeviling our country. Indeed, current law is the reason that charitable nonprofits are safe havens from politics, a place where people can come together to actually solve community problems rather than just posture and remain torn apart.

Although all of these latest proposals are couched in terms relating to churches, in truth the underlying law is Section 501©(3) in the Tax Code, which relates to all charitable nonprofits and foundations. For more than six decades, the law now being attacked has protected charitable nonprofits and foundations from being pressured by politicians and paid political operatives to divert their time and resources away from advancing their missions in local communities. That law has a proven track record of working well to protect against politicization.

Nonprofits are already free to exercise their First Amendment rights to advocate for their missions. Allowing political operatives to push for endorsements would put nonprofits in a position where they become known as Democratic charities or Republican charities and put missions at risk. “Furthermore, those who donate to nonprofits want those contributions to go toward advancing the mission, not toward advancing the careers of politicians or lining the pockets of political consultants. Getting involved in supporting or opposing candidates will have a chilling effect on contributions on which many nonprofits rely." 
Source

Just think of the all the election money flowing through tax-exempt nonprofits and charitable assets being diverted to campaign activities.  Dodgy

The Fifth Amendment’s Just Compensation Clause, ‘‘nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation’’, can be read to to infer the same rights to one's own income. While individuals are compensated with public services, organizations are not compensated any more than the individuals who compose it, making it a double taxation, especially for non-profits that, duh, don't even generate a profit. Regan v. TWR was not about free speech in general but about subsidizing lobbying (specifically as a substantial portion of their activities). And it's the "substantial activity" part that's important:

Organizations with a focus on the environment may be the most visible nonprofits engaging in the policy process, but lobbying is no less important for nonprofits working on every issue area, from the arts to wildlife preservation. In a 2007 Stanford Social Innovation Review article, "Creating High-Impact Nonprofits," the authors identified a best practice that all successful high-impact nonprofits share: the combination of providing services in their communities and engaging in policy advocacy, including lobbying, at the local, state, or federal level. Who, after all, knows the problems of their communities more intimately and is in the best position to suggest practical solutions than the nonprofit organizations that work in those communities every day? Nonprofits that do not take advantage of their ability to lobby miss an opportunity to advance policies that will improve the lives of their constituents.
- https://apps.americanbar.org/buslaw/blt/...ehta.shtml

Or do you also condemn environmental, arts, wildlife preservation, and other non-profits who lobby? If not, you're a self-serving hypocrite. Atheists, especially, labor under the insane notion that a person's beliefs even can be separated from any other endeavor in their life. Whether allowed to openly promote a candidate or not, many religious people are primarily influenced by their beliefs, to an extent that you'd likely find a very large consensus among any specific congregation.

And nothing about allowing political speech would force any non-profit to take or publicize any political position whatsoever. So the panic about partisanship is hyperbole. It's all a smoke screen for real partisans trying to stop voices they can't compete with.

And you're fooling yourself if you think most charitable organization are not already known to be partisan, simply by their mission statements, press releases, or publishing.

(May 5, 2017 11:00 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t think that anyone is really concerned about the verbal support (the so-called free speech), C C.  That’s been happening for years. They’re concerned about the financial support.

Political contributions should not be treated as tax deductible charitable contributions.  Businesses have an interest in the outcome of elections, as well, but they’re not allowed to claim deductions for anything incurred in connection with influencing legislation.  No campaign expenses are deductible that I know of.  If non-profit organizations are allowed to pay for advertising or any other expenses earmarked for political purposes, and hidden under a tax-exempt cloak, then corporations, big and small, should be granted the same option.

Supposedly, the Free Speech Fairness Act would prevent this from happening.

The bill fixes but does not repeal the Johnson Amendment.

"The bill does not allow non-profit organizations or churches to engage in political activities outside the normal scope of their tax exempt work or contribute to political activities or candidates."

Money with strings attached?  Aren’t we trying to curb political corruption?

The Johnson Amendment doesn't address financial support, so I don't see how you're imagining getting rid of it promotes tax deductible political contributions. The Johnson Amendment is specifically: "and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office." No where does that mention direct campaign contributions.

And saying "if corporations can't do it" is a tu quoque argument.
(May 5, 2017 11:52 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]It's not subsidized speech, it's speech free of Damocles hammer of taxation.

Tax exemption is a public subsidy.

Syne Wrote:Nor do you seem to know that income tax is a communist idea (Carl Marx's Das Kapital), not originally part of US law.

No. I didn't know that.  Where can I find that information?  It wasn't in the Wikipedia article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax

Quote:The Form 990 requires a public charity to provide a detailed written description of the lobbying activities it has engaged in that tax year.
—From your link

While secular charities are required to provide a description of lobbying activities using Form 990, religious institutions aren't required to file Form 990. There’s also special rules limiting IRS authority to audit a church.


"Because of the First Amendment to the Constitution guaranteeing freedom of religion, the IRS has long adopted a largely hands-off approach to regulating churches.

For example as long as an organization qualifies as a church, it need not apply to the IRS to receive its tax exemption—the exemption is automatic. Moreover, churches need not file the dreaded IRS Form 990 or 990-EZ--the annual information forms that other charities must file each year.

However, many churches apply to the IRS anyway. The advantages of doing so are that (1) the organization will obtain official recognition of its tax-exempt status which assures donors that their contributions are tax deductible, and (2) it will be listed in IRS records as a qualified charitable organization and it can obtain a determination letter from the IRS stating that contributions to it are tax deductible."


http://churchesandtaxes.procon.org/sourc...ations.pdf

Syne Wrote:The Johnson Amendment doesn't address financial support, so I don't see how you're imagining getting rid of it promotes tax deductible political contributions. The Johnson Amendment is specifically: "and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office." No where does that mention direct campaign contributions.

And saying "if corporations can't do it" is a tu quoque argument.

Are you trying to tell me that a repeal of the Johnson Amendment wouldn’t allow money to flow into politics through tax exempt donations?
(May 5, 2017 11:00 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t think that anyone is really concerned about the verbal support (the so-called free speech), C C. That’s been happening for years. They’re concerned about the financial support.


Yes, the current wonks have their heads stuck up into that particular fixation. But what's curious (again) is that the original motivation for the prohibition didn't even revolve around concern over church political activity (neither the free speech nor the contribution aspects). Historically interesting to me, anyway -- it's not like I was running a poll or really expecting anyone else to raise an eyebrow over a dead crow in the cornfield. Wink
(May 6, 2017 01:00 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]
(May 5, 2017 11:52 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]It's not subsidized speech, it's speech free of Damocles hammer of taxation.

Tax exemption is a public subsidy.
Bare assertion in lieu of argument or reason.
Quote:
Syne Wrote:Nor do you seem to know that income tax is a communist idea (Carl Marx's Das Kapital), not originally part of US law.

No. I didn't know that.  Where can I find that information?  It wasn't in the Wikipedia article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax

The section goes on to defend communism from various objections, including claims that it advocates "free love" or disincentivises people from working. The section ends by outlining a set of short-term demands—among them a progressive income tax; abolition of inheritances and private property; free public education; nationalisation of the means of transport and communication; centralisation of credit via a national bank; expansion of publicly owned etc.—the implementation of which would result in the precursor to a stateless and classless society.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Commun...o#Synopsis

Quote:
Quote:The Form 990 requires a public charity to provide a detailed written description of the lobbying activities it has engaged in that tax year.
—From your link

While secular charities are required to provide a description of lobbying activities using Form 990, religious institutions aren't required to file Form 990. There’s also special rules limiting IRS authority to audit a church.


"Because of the First Amendment to the Constitution guaranteeing freedom of religion, the IRS has long adopted a largely hands-off approach to regulating churches.

For example as long as an organization qualifies as a church, it need not apply to the IRS to receive its tax exemption—the exemption is automatic. Moreover, churches need not file the dreaded IRS Form 990 or 990-EZ--the annual information forms that other charities must file each year.

However, many churches apply to the IRS anyway. The advantages of doing so are that (1) the organization will obtain official recognition of its tax-exempt status which assures donors that their contributions are tax deductible, and (2) it will be listed in IRS records as a qualified charitable organization and it can obtain a determination letter from the IRS stating that contributions to it are tax deductible."


http://churchesandtaxes.procon.org/sourc...ations.pdf
And? It only seems to be some sort of stubborn pride that keeps some secular ideologies from applying as a church. The left has certainly taken on a quasi-religious fervor lately.
Quote:
Syne Wrote:The Johnson Amendment doesn't address financial support, so I don't see how you're imagining getting rid of it promotes tax deductible political contributions. The Johnson Amendment is specifically: "and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office." No where does that mention direct campaign contributions.

And saying "if corporations can't do it" is a tu quoque argument.

Are you trying to tell me that a repeal of the Johnson Amendment wouldn’t allow money to flow into politics through tax exempt donations?
Secular charities already did, up to limits depending on whether they make the 501(h) election (with the higher limit requiring 990 reporting). With the aforementioned weaponizing of the IRS, retaliation against speech alone became a real concern.
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