Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum

"WASHINGTON — Thousands of people streamed onto the National Mall for a daylong prayer rally Sunday billed as a “rededication of our country as One Nation under God.”

Against the backdrop of the Washington Monument, worship music blared from a stage that made clear the event’s Christian focus.

Arched stained-glass windows, set underneath grand columns resembling a federal building, depicted the nation’s founders alongside a white cross.

Most speakers celebrated Christianity’s ties to American history, a blending of ideas that critics flagged ahead of the prayer gathering as supporting Christian nationalism.

From the stage, the Rev. Robert Jeffress embraced the term, which is often taken as a pejorative. “If being a Christian nationalist means loving Jesus Christ and loving America, count me in,” said the prominent Southern Baptist pastor..."---https://www.chicagotribune.com/.../america-themed-prayer.../
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Hmm..I wonder what Jesus would say?

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."---Matthew 5: 5-8

There's a difference between praying "to be seen by others" and praying in solidarity "with others."

I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
- John 17:22-23 NIV

“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
- Matthew 18:19-20 NIV

When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God.
- Acts 4:24a NIV

There's a reason Matthew 5:5 includes "standing in the synagogues." Because it's not solely about where it's done, but in what spirit it is done.
As in John 17:23, "the world [cannot] know" if the world never sees it.

Quote:There's a reason Matthew 5:5 includes "standing in the synagogues." Because it's not solely about where it's done, but in what spirit it is done.

Or on street corners, meaning praying publicly where people can see you. The moment you pray in public you are doing it to be seen by others. And that corrupts the sincerity of praying at all. Like reading a book at Starbucks. Or masturbating.

If even a synagogue is too public for prayer, why does the Bible promote "rais[ing] their voices together in prayer to God"? Wouldn't that happen in a synagogue? And if Matthew 5:5 equates synagogues and street corners, doesn't that mean the latter is acceptable, with the right motive?

Of course it does. Because Christianity is not based in rigid rules, like Judaism. Christianity (the New Testament) is more concerned with motive and spirit than enumerated rules. People can pray out loud, whether in their church or a street corner, in solidarity with other Christians. The only reason to pray out loud is to unify intentions.

“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
- Matthew 18:19-20 NIV

People gather together and "agree about anything they ask for" through out loud prayer. So it's patently false that out loud prayer is condemned in the Bible, no matter where it occurs, because "where two or three gather in my name" doesn't have any exclusions.

Now, if you were to pray in public, your own motive might be to gain attention. That is the wrong spirit/motive.
And just because you might be putting on a show to read a book at Starbucks, doesn't mean everyone is like you.

Two or three gathering together and praying isn't necessarily praying in public. That could take place inside away from public eyes. This prayer rally otoh is nothing BUT being about being seen in public, with a giant stage and speakers and TV cameras capturing every moment for all the world to see. That's using prayer as a flashy showbiz stunt to impress others with, like it makes them more American because they are Christians doing religious stuff. Jesus wasn't about showing your faith off to make a point to people, especially a blatantly political one. And especially with something so private and sacred as being in prayer. It's called hypocrisy.

Just like there are no exclusions to "where" people are gathered, there are also no exclusions on how many are gathered. Again, since Matthew 5:5 equates a church (synagogue) with a street corner, and "inside away from public eyes" is a church, you're making a distinction the Bible clearly does not. Again, Jesus prayed:

I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
- John 17:22-23 NIV

How is the world to know that unity without public expressions of that unity?

“You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
- Matthew 5:14-16

IOW, Jesus commanded the faithful to be known to the world, and Jesus, himself, made public prayers several times.
In Matthew, it says "do not be like the hypocrites." So if you claim all public prayer is hypocritical, you must also be claiming the same of Jesus.... which is obviously not biblical.

There's nothing political about people expressing their solidarity with each other. Even if that solidarity is about national pride and religious faith. Just because the left has abandoned both, and think they are solely Republican traits, that's the left's problem. They ceded that ground voluntarily.

Jesus frequently demonstrated his faith and divine authority publicly through actions rather than words. He often used grand, visible moments to reveal his mission, while famously warning his followers to avoid "showing off" their own faith for attention.
Here is how his public displays of faith and authority were recorded:

Public Miracles & Healings: Rather than just preaching, Jesus used massive, public events—like feeding the 5,000 or raising Lazarus from the dead—to visibly display God's power. He used these signs so observers would recognize his divine mission.
The Temple Cleansing: In one of his boldest public acts, Jesus overturned the tables of the merchants and money changers in the Jerusalem Temple [Mark 11:15-18]. This was a highly visible, confrontational demonstration of his zeal for God's house.
Public Prayers: While he taught individuals to pray in private (Matthew 6:6), Jesus prayed publicly during key moments, such as before the raising of Lazarus, specifically so the crowd could hear and believe.
The Triumphal Entry: Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, fulfilling prophecy [Zechariah 9:9] while a large crowd laid down their cloaks and palm branches, publicly declaring him as the Messiah.
- Gemini

So again, if you claim Jesus taught ALL public prayer was hypocritical... while making several public prayers... you are calling Jesus a hypocrite, which is, again, not biblical.

It's just trying to warp the Bible into a cudgel you can use against your political enemies. Twisting the truth, like Satan.

Quote:So again, if you claim Jesus taught ALL public prayer was hypocritical... while making several public prayers... you are calling Jesus a hypocrite, which is, again, not biblical.

Jesus never set up situations to show off or make some spectacle of himself. The people followed him of their own freewill. Which is why he condemned using one's religion to attract attention to yourself. Basic hypocrisy:

“Be careful that you don’t practice your religion in front of people to draw their attention. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. Whenever you give to the poor, don’t blow your trumpet as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets so that they may get praise from people. I assure you, that’s the only reward they’ll get. But when you give to the poor, don’t let your left hand know what your right hand is doing so that you may give to the poor in secret. Your Father who sees what you do in secret will reward you."--Matt 6: 1-4

Google AI:

"Jesus taught that faith should be a humble, authentic connection with God rather than a performative spectacle. Instead of practicing religion to draw human attention, His teachings emphasize quiet devotion and letting your sincere actions reflect God’s love naturally. Living out the teachings of Jesus is more about genuine character and quiet service than showing off.

Key principles include:

Authentic Giving: Do good deeds and give to others privately rather than drawing attention to your generosity.

Private Prayer: Commune with God sincerely in private rather than praying in public just to be seen as spiritual.

Humility: Avoid boastful displays of faith and focus on a sincere heart."

Again:

(May 18, 2026 05:19 AM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]

Jesus frequently demonstrated his faith and divine authority publicly through actions rather than words. He often used grand, visible moments to reveal his mission, while famously warning his followers to avoid "showing off" their own faith for attention.
Here is how his public displays of faith and authority were recorded:

    Public Miracles & Healings: Rather than just preaching, Jesus used massive, public events—like feeding the 5,000 or raising Lazarus from the dead—to visibly display God's power. He used these signs so observers would recognize his divine mission.
    The Temple Cleansing: In one of his boldest public acts, Jesus overturned the tables of the merchants and money changers in the Jerusalem Temple [Mark 11:15-18]. This was a highly visible, confrontational demonstration of his zeal for God's house.
    Public Prayers: While he taught individuals to pray in private (Matthew 6:6), Jesus prayed publicly during key moments, such as before the raising of Lazarus, specifically so the crowd could hear and believe.
    The Triumphal Entry: Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, fulfilling prophecy [Zechariah 9:9] while a large crowd laid down their cloaks and palm branches, publicly declaring him as the Messiah.
- Gemini

Jesus chose to do miracles where large crowds would see, attacked the money changers very publicly, prayed in public specifically for the benefit of crowds, and staged the fulfillment of prophesy.

You seem to be repeatedly missing this part: “Be careful that you don’t practice your religion in front of people to draw their attention."
This clearly specifies that the motive is the problem.

There was no display of generosity, so that is irrelevant here. There was a show of solidarity, which Jesus clearly taught and modeled himself.

You're just politically weaponizing the Bible, that you don't believe in.
Prayer rallies/meetings and rededications are staples of Christianity and part of our nation.

The National Day of Prayer is an annual day of observance designated by the United States Congress and held on the first Thursday of May, when people are asked "to turn to God in prayer and meditation". The president is required by law (36 U.S.C. § 119) to sign a proclamation each year, encouraging all Americans to pray on this day.
...
On the National Day of Prayer, many Americans assemble in prayer in front of courthouses, as well as in houses of worship, such as churches, mosques, synagogues, and temples. Luncheons, picnics, and music performances revolving around praying for the nation are also popular observances.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Day_of_Prayer

If you were the expert you claim, you'd already know all this. But that wouldn't serve your transparently partisan motives here.

Quote:Prayer rallies/meetings and rededications are staples of Christianity and part of our nation.

All contradictions of what Jesus taught by word and example. Today's so-called Christians are largely money-worshipping hypocrites, using their religion as a tool to get ahead in the world. If Jesus were here, he wouldn't give them the time of day.

(May 18, 2026 06:24 AM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Prayer rallies/meetings and rededications are staples of Christianity and part of our nation.

All contradictions of what Jesus taught by word and example. Today's so-called Christians are largely money-worshipping hypocrites, using their religion as a tool to get ahead in the world. If Jesus were here, he wouldn't give them the time of day.

You obviously don't understand the Bible or Jesus' teaching... beyond what you can naively weaponize.

“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.
- Mark 9:42 NIV