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I love it. Everybody's treating Putin like he's some dignified statesman when he is just a murderous ex-KGB thug and thieving warmongerer.. He's gonna play Trump like a fine-tuned fiddle. Sanction the hell out of his ass!

Russia is already under a lot of sanctions, from the US, EU, and others.
Seems the next step, that Trump has threatened, is secondary sanctions, which would sanction countries that do business with Russia, like India. The problem is that you risk pushing those countries closer to Russia... and China.

Not sure how else you'd treat someone you're hoping to negotiate with and get some concessions from. I wouldn't be to amenable to making compromises if treated like a thug.

(Aug 15, 2025 09:52 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]Russia is already under a lot of sanctions, from the US, EU, and others.
Seems the next step, that Trump has threatened, is secondary sanctions, which would sanction countries that do business with Russia, like India. The problem is that you risk pushing those countries closer to Russia... and China.

Not sure how else you'd treat someone you're hoping to negotiate with and get some concessions from. I wouldn't be to amenable to making compromises if treated like a thug.

To be honest Trump stopping USAID has likely acted like an extra sanction to Putin and his team, considering it was likely originally trickled in to support democracy, over the years Russia would of likely been planting their people as sleepers by appearing democratic just to leech the funding. So while Trump doesn't necessarily get everything right, he might of in this instance in a roundabout way.

Putin and Trump just talked about their meeting. Alot of platitudes and ass-kissing without anything of substance being mentioned. Putin comes out looking like an international rock star, and Trump fails again miserably. The Art of the Deal my ass..

Putin's statements are literally the same as they were with no interest in peace, such as wanting to remove Ukraine from existing as a country (and moaning about NATO, as mentioned before elsewhere Europe and NATO should really be moaning about these Enclaves thats don't belong in the territories). Putin doesn't want to legitimize Ukraine as a country, Sitting across from Zelenskyy would be doing just that which is why Putins being an arsehole when it comes to peacetalks.

Trump shouldn't be using the word "Deal" in regards to asserting peace, as there is literally NO DEAL to be had. The only way he'd get a deal now is via a hostile takeover, where something is shaken up so much that Putin is forced to the table. That's why both him and Putin have been pushing for Ukraine to cave in because they see Ukraine as easier to generate the outcome. Hopefully Ukraine continues to prove them wrong.

You have to offer Putin a carrot, not just demand he accept the Russian losses without any gain of territory. These talks, including an upcoming talk with Zelenskyy, are trying to stop the bloodshed sooner than secondary sanctions could... which is the only pressure Trump can apply. I'm sure Trump reminded Putin of this eventuality.

There is a deal to had, but it relies solely on Zelenskyy. Ukraine could lose some territory but also get a security agreement with the EU, that would hopefully commit European troops and weapons to the future defense of Ukraine.

(Aug 16, 2025 06:33 PM)Syne Wrote: [ -> ]You have to offer Putin a carrot, not just demand he accept the Russian losses without any gain of territory. These talks, including an upcoming talk with Zelenskyy, are trying to stop the bloodshed sooner than secondary sanctions could... which is the only pressure Trump can apply. I'm sure Trump reminded Putin of this eventuality.

There is a deal to had, but it relies solely on Zelenskyy. Ukraine could lose some territory but also get a security agreement with the EU, that would hopefully commit European troops and weapons to the future defense of Ukraine.

Like I said, if Putin is too much of a False Dymitry (wikipedia.org) to sit across from Zelenskyy at a table to discuss the finer points there will not or ever will be a Deal to be made. Don't forget that us over here in the UK haven't necessarily forgotten about the Skripal poisoning attempt and the death of Dawn Sturgess who was just collateral damage to Russia's attack. They've denied they were involved and never apologised for attacking this countries sovereignty either.

(In fact they went further insulting the country as a "Lame Duck" along with some other nonsense from the Russian TV channel.

To be frank, it's not just about what they've done to the Ukraine, or Territorial rights, there are far more things that have been brewing and ultimately Russia will have brought it upon themselves when the shit goes down.

Even Ukrainian citizens have reached the point where they're willing to give up territory. Too late, maybe, if Putin now wants the whole pie (inceasing military success does that).

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20250...tin-summit

EXCERPTS: Starmer stressed that any deal reached on bringing the fighting to an end must protect the “territorial integrity” of Ukraine...

[...] Anton Vyshniak, a car salesman in Kyiv, said Ukraine's priority now should be saving the lives of its troops, even at the expense of making territorial concessions.

“At the moment, the most important thing is to preserve the lives of male and female military personnel. After all, there are not many human resources left," he said. "Borders are borders, but human lives are priceless. Therefore, some principles can be disregarded here.”

Using Ukraine as a proxy in your own national revenge is immoral. You're letting Ukrainians die while you're unwilling to commit Brits to the war effort.

Like it or not, the UK is largely a lame duck. When is the last time a UK move had any significant influence on international events?
Russia also called Obama a lame duck.

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Apparently Democrats think you're supposed to make concessions before any talks about possible concessions: https://youtu.be/RbGGwD3HwFk?si=ItHNkxbmxaH9lshZ&t=163

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Putin admits he wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if Trump had been president.