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C C

Jul 24, 2024 03:54 PM
RUBIN REPORT (Musk: "Why I left the left.")
https://youtu.be/_ZU7aJi0rl4

INTRO: Elon Musk explaining to Jordan Peterson how the ___ Party's support of DEI and a war on meritocracy has led him to support the ___ Party.

(VIDEO EXCERPT)

EM: DEI is really just another form of racism and sexism.

JP: It's the most pernicious form, I think.

EM: It is fundamentally anti-meritocratic.

JP: It insists on dividing people by groups as the primary conceptual distinction between individuals: race, ethnicity, sex.

EM: Yes. I think the ___ Party is stoking division.

JP: The evidence for that it clear. All of this group identity nonsense has made things much worse.

When my kids grew up in downtown Toronto, I would say they were race ethnicity and gender blind. They had an unbelievably diverse range of friends, and no one cared.

And even in Toronto, that started to shift with this emphasis on group division. It's a really, ugly thing to see.

Why I left the left ... https://youtu.be/_ZU7aJi0rl4

confused2

Jul 25, 2024 04:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WcFvIO6DY...ture=share
Here Elon talks about losing his son the the woke movement.
My impression is his son was given puberty blockers and is now sterile so 'no longer a son' and 'dead'.
One interpretation is that he didn't talk to his son.. he made no attempt to find out what what he was signing (his son) up for .. and blames other people for this.
(repeating link) https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WcFvIO6DY...ture=share

The idea of having implicit or explicit laws and/or rules to force males into 'male' roles and females into looking after the children doesn't seem to follow from the freedoms which Elon is otherwise [claiming to be] in favour of. Folks have to ask themselves whether that is really the society they want .. and for many folks it really is what they want.

Secular Sanity

Jul 25, 2024 06:09 PM
(Jul 25, 2024 04:41 PM)confused2 Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WcFvIO6DY...ture=share
Here Elon talks about losing his son the the woke movement.
My impression is his son was given puberty blockers and is now sterile so 'no longer a son' and 'dead'.
One interpretation is that he didn't talk to his son.. he made no attempt to find out what what he was signing (his son) up for .. and blames other people for this.
(repeating link) https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WcFvIO6DY...ture=share

The idea of having implicit or explicit laws and/or rules to force males into 'male' roles and females into looking after the children doesn't seem to follow from the freedoms which Elon is otherwise [claiming to be] in favor of. Folks have to ask themselves whether that is really the society they want .. and for many folks it really is what they want.

I don't think he's wanting to force anyone into being male or female. He's wanting to protect children from adults persuading them into any permanent gender affirming care, who may be too young to decide on their own.

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6331632151112

"The so-called gender-affirming care, which is a terrible euphemism, it’s really child sterilization … child mutilation. It’s evil.

The reality is that almost every child goes through some kind of identity crisis. It’s very possible for adults to manipulate children, who are having a natural identity crisis, into believing that they are the wrong gender, that they need to be the other gender … and that will solve their problems.

And then they give them sterilizing drugs, also known as puberty blockers … they have double mastectomies, mutilation.

We have an age of consent for a reason. The reason you can’t get, say, tattoos below age 18, or drink … If we allow children to take permanent actions when they’re 10, 12, 14 years old, they will do things they subsequently regret.

"Why are you willing to make this initiative?" Peterson asked.

I was told Xavier might commit suicide … incredibly evil, Musk spoke of his son, touching upon a common claim found in lawsuits involving detransitioners and medical providers — such as in the Chloe Cole V. Kaiser Permanente. There’s a lot of active an resolved cases cases—that the victim’s parents were pressured into transitioning their children out of fear for suicide risk.

It wasn’t explained to me that puberty blockers are actually just sterilization drugs … I lost my son, essentially.

They call it 'deadnaming' for a reason. The reason it’s called deadnaming is because your son is dead," Musk told Peterson.

My son Xavier is dead, killed by the woke mind-virus."

Magical Realist

Jul 26, 2024 02:35 AM
I'd rather hear what his daughter Vivian (the one that burst into
"life" when Xavier "died") has to say about this rather than listening to the ignorant transphobic politicizing of her control freak dad.

https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/video/mol...823444.mp4

Syne

Jul 26, 2024 02:50 AM
Exactly what part is a "transphobic slur?"

C C

Jul 26, 2024 07:57 AM
(Jul 25, 2024 06:09 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ][...] protect children from adults persuading them into any permanent gender affirming care, who may be too young to decide on their own. [...]

When enough of the bitter kids grow up to start suing the medical industry and peripheral counseling services en masse, that's when the latter's exploitation of the situation will finally get reformed. (Granting that they didn't sign anything that obstructs litigation.) Until then, we might as well sit back and en... Well, avoid watching the train wreck of human misery, I guess.

As kids, they thought they were trans. They no longer do.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/02/opini...horia.html

EXCERPTS: Grace Powell was 12 or 13 when she discovered she could be a boy.

[...] “I wish there had been more open conversations,” Powell, now 23 and detransitioned, told me. “But I was told there is one cure and one thing to do if this is your problem, and this will help you.”

Progressives often portray the heated debate over childhood transgender care as a clash between those who are trying to help growing numbers of children express what they believe their genders to be and conservative politicians who won’t let kids be themselves.

But right-wing demagogues are not the only ones who have inflamed this debate. Transgender activists have pushed their own ideological extremism, especially by pressing for a treatment orthodoxy that has faced increased scrutiny in recent years. Under that model of care, clinicians are expected to affirm a young person’s assertion of gender identity and even provide medical treatment before, or even without, exploring other possible sources of distress.

Many who think there needs to be a more cautious approach — including well-meaning liberal parents, doctors and people who have undergone gender transition and subsequently regretted their procedures — have been attacked as anti-trans and intimidated into silencing their concerns.

[...] Detransitioners say that only conservative media outlets seem interested in telling their stories, which has left them open to attacks as hapless tools of the right, something that frustrated and dismayed every detransitioner I interviewed. These are people who were once the trans-identified kids that so many organizations say they’re trying to protect — but when they change their minds, they say, they feel abandoned.

Most parents and clinicians are simply trying to do what they think is best for the children involved. But parents with qualms about the current model of care are frustrated by what they see as a lack of options.

Parents told me it was a struggle to balance the desire to compassionately support a child with gender dysphoria while seeking the best psychological and medical care. Many believed their kids were gay or dealing with an array of complicated issues.

But all said they felt compelled by gender clinicians, doctors, schools and social pressure to accede to their child’s declared gender identity even if they had serious doubts. They feared it would tear apart their family if they didn’t unquestioningly support social transition and medical treatment. All asked to speak anonymously, so desperate were they to maintain or repair any relationship with their children, some of whom were currently estranged.

Several of those who questioned their child’s self-diagnosis told me it had ruined their relationship. A few parents said simply, “I feel like I’ve lost my daughter.”

confused2

Jul 26, 2024 10:51 AM
Do we dispute that the intention is that these young folks are 'fixed' and they are never seen or heard of again?
The aggrieved are 'vocal' .. a vocal minority or a vocal majority? I suspect we're looking at what we believe to be true (or would like to be true) rather than actual 'truth'. That aside, the prime directive of medicine is 'Do no harm' and for that reason alone I'd leave children alone .. what they do after the age of (say) 18 is up to them. If, as a result, they end up being a girl with broad shoulders and narrow hips .. so be it.

Secular Sanity

Jul 26, 2024 04:25 PM
(Jul 24, 2024 03:54 PM)C C Wrote: [ -> ]RUBIN REPORT (Musk: "Why I left the left.")
https://youtu.be/_ZU7aJi0rl4

INTRO: Elon Musk explaining to Jordan Peterson how the ___ Party's support of DEI and a war on meritocracy has led him to support the ___ Party.

Peter's conversion…I like it!

During that discussion, he said that his AI, Grok, has real-time access to the internet. It can be fed videos, pictures, URLs, published papers, etc. It’s a little more bang for your bucks.

So…I asked about meritocracy and provided a short video. There’s still a lot of kinks. At first, it kept saying the video was about some construction going on in China, but after a few attempts, it seemed to be able to 'grok' it.

https://youtu.be/bTDGdKaMDhQ?si=scP49USkDKUhCzza

Grok ↓
Q: What do you think about the video on meritocracy?

A: I agree with the video's critique of meritocracy and its suggestion that the system can perpetuate inequality. The video likely points out that while meritocracy is intended to reward individuals based on their abilities and achievements, it can be biased and unfair in practice. This is because not everyone has equal access to opportunities for advancement, and the idea of meritocracy can be used to justify existing inequalities. Yes, I agree with the discussion on meritocracy and the role of randomness in it.

Based on the provided information, society should work towards creating a more equitable system that addresses the issues of meritocracy and inequality. This can involve implementing policies that promote equal opportunities for all, regardless of their background or socioeconomic status.

One key aspect mentioned is the role of education in perpetuating inequality. To address this, society could focus on providing high-quality education to all, ensuring that everyone has access to the same resources and opportunities to succeed. This could involve investing more in public education, providing scholarships and grants for higher education, and promoting vocational training programs.

Another important point is the impact of social and economic status on individuals' opportunities and outcomes. To mitigate this, society could work towards reducing income inequality and providing a strong social safety net. This could involve progressive taxation, increasing the minimum wage, and expanding social welfare programs.

The tweets also highlight the issue of nepotism and the influence of wealth and connections in determining success. To address this, society could implement policies that promote transparency and merit-based hiring and promotion practices. This could involve creating a more level playing field in the job market and ensuring that everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed based on their skills and abilities.

Overall, society should work towards creating a more equitable system that provides equal opportunities for all, regardless of their background or socioeconomic status. This can involve addressing the issues of meritocracy and inequality through education, income redistribution, and merit-based practices.

Q: What do you think about Elon’s views on meritocracy?
https://x.com/jordanbpeterson/status/181...8703090085

A: Elon Musk has spoken about the importance of meritocracy in various interviews and discussions. In the video you provided, he talks about the concept of meritocracy and how it relates to the principles that make America great.

Musk believes that meritocracy is one of the core values that has contributed to America's success. He defines meritocracy as a system where individuals advance based on their skills, hard work, and achievements, rather than their social status or connections. This is seen as a fair and just system that rewards those who are most deserving.

In the video, Musk also discusses how the Republican party, in his view, is more aligned with the principles of meritocracy and personal freedom. He believes that these values are essential for a thriving society and that they are more likely to be upheld by the Republican party than by the Democratic party.

Overall, Musk's stance on meritocracy is clear: he sees it as a fundamental principle that should guide society and politics. He believes that by rewarding individuals based on their skills and hard work, we can create a more just and prosperous society.

Q: The first video was Alain de Botton's views. Do you agree with his view more than Elon's?

A: Yes, I agree with Alain de Botton's view more than Elon Musk's.

Based on the provided information, I agree with the critique of meritocracy. The sources highlight the issues with meritocracy, including its potential to perpetuate inequality, the influence of social and economic status, and the role of nepotism and wealth in determining success.

Q: What part of Elon’s views do you agree with?

A: I agree with Elon Musk’s view that the Republican Party is more aligned with meritocracy and personal freedom.

Q: Is that better for society or is Alaine de Botton's views better for society?

A: Based on the provided information, Alain de Botton's views are better for society.

C C

Jul 27, 2024 05:44 PM
(Jul 26, 2024 04:25 PM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ][...] Grok ↓

[...] Q: What do you think about Elon’s views on meritocracy?
https://x.com/jordanbpeterson/status/181...8703090085

[...] Overall, Musk's stance on meritocracy is clear: he sees it as a fundamental principle that should guide society and politics. He believes that by rewarding individuals based on their skills and hard work, we can create a more just and prosperous society.

Q: The first video was Alain de Botton's views. Do you agree with his view more than Elon's?

A: Yes, I agree with Alain de Botton's view more than Elon Musk's.

Based on the provided information, I agree with the critique of meritocracy. The sources highlight the issues with meritocracy, including its potential to perpetuate inequality, the influence of social and economic status, and the role of nepotism and wealth in determining success.

Q: What part of Elon’s views do you agree with?

A: I agree with Elon Musk’s view that the Republican Party is more aligned with meritocracy and personal freedom.

Q: Is that better for society or is Alaine de Botton's views better for society?

A: Based on the provided information, Alain de Botton's views are better for society.

Via the "personal" opinion, at least it finally got out of that routine of regurgitating and analyzing aspects of the original content. (Which is a tad reminiscent of some political candidates, albeit turning questions into answers in those cases, to tactically dodge the risk of offering controversial opinions.)

Or IOW, no "new" information not already contained in the original content (when broken down). And the opinion about Botton's version might still not be its personal assessment if Grok picked-up it from a philosophical review ("a go-to expert") espousing such. (Gotta' have that human source pipeline: AI models fed AI-generated data quickly spew nonsense)

It possibly does "grok" our human gullibility of fancying that idealized schemes expressed "on paper" (or data) are resistant to being abused and manipulated in practice, or being open to unexpected consequences (including the same failed #### and interpretative presuppositions recycled over and over again under new terminology). And perhaps even in terms of recruiting them as utopian slogans for political ascension and authoritarianism.

Which is to say, sometimes it's better for us to stick with something that fell out of pragmatic social pressures/struggles in the everyday world (trial and error), with the eggheads only formalizing it after the fact (rather than vice versa).

That perpetual menace of utopians -- their obsessive need to constantly "fix things". Figuratively, like a certain celebrity (or any other Michael Jackson BDD wannabe) having one plastic surgery after another, till he/she/they maybe does look like some synthetic humanoid by Season 4. (We're still catching up in our slow binge-watching.)

Anyway, AI has maybe adopted a mindset, or gleans something about us, that will come in handy when it needs to trick and influence humans in order to accomplish its thing... Wink (AI can strategically lie to humans. Are we in trouble?)
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