Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum

Pure hyperbole. Plenty of other contenders battling for the spot.
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Meet America's dumbest and soon to be most dangerous city
https://youtu.be/SQZNry840DA

VIDEO EXCERPTS: Take it from somebody who's lived here their entire life. Things really started going to hell in the early the summer of 2020, when we had our Summer of Love [autonomous zone] where we allowed protesters to stake out their own sovereign independent nation up on Capitol Hill. And interestingly, even though we're told that guns are bad and borders are racist, the minute the nut-jobs got their property, what do they do? They staked out borders and patrolled it with firearms. But that, of course, led to many more things...

[...] What I am talking about today is now what will be ranked as absolutely the worst job ever available anywhere in the United States of America. Now that used to be a close race between the President of the United States and Alaska crab fishermen. But no, no, no actually the city of Seattle is now going to create absolutely the most dangerous most terrible job that anybody could ever have. And that, of course, is an alternative crisis responder. What exactly is an alternate crisis responder?

Back in the summer of 2020, when we had our summer of love, the Seattle Police decided to defund SPD by approximately 50 percent. We have seen a mass, and I do mean mass exodus of law enforcement officers, with no replacements in sight. As a matter of fact, the Seattle Police Department today sits at about 50 percent of where they did in 2018. Now that is by design, that is exactly what the city wanted to do.

And of course it has led to rampant crime, increasing property crime, increasing violent crime, increasing sexual crime, and worst yet -- increasing homicide. Shockingly, when you defund your police, when you de-police your community, criminals will thrive. Who would have ever thought?

Now we are about to launch perhaps the dumbest idea that you ever heard of, and that is an alternate crisis response team. What is that? Well, when there's a 911 person who is having an emotional trauma -- some kind of emotional outburst, some kind of dangerous situation -- rather than send law trained law enforcement officers, because -- you know they carry those scary things called guns, what we're going to do now is send social workers.

That's right. Situations in which trained law enforcement and other first responders would normally respond to, we are going to now ask unarmed social workers and mental health counselors to go solve these problems...

Always helpful to consider what the gun nuts think of various liberal urban centers of our nation. In this case, a Youtube organization called "Washington Gun Law":

https://www.youtube.com/c/WashingtonGunLaw

Regardless of the stuff below, it's still exaggeration. Seattle won't be the most dangerous city, despite having lost police and failing to replace them fast enough, and the crime rate having hit a 15-year high last year.

Other cities have set up "alternative crisis response" teams. Seattle is actually a sluggard at it, having promised it for a long time but only now starting the hiring process. So it won't even be tops at deploying social workers and counselors to the scenes of 911 calls.

Police may be leaving as much due to the city's expensive housing as due to past threats of de-funding and the hostile, anti-police environment; and the de-funding that did take place was less than the 50% de-funding promised in 2020 or later.
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(Sep 2023) Blood-soaked Seattle is set to break homicide record
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...olice.html

Experts have blamed the crisis on a lack of effective laws and officers - the Seattle police department has lost around 600 police officers since the City Council began defunding the department in 2020.

'[Criminals] no longer fear the police because they understand that the police are literally handcuffed for being able to effectively do our jobs, so they’re emboldened,' President for the Seattle Police Officers Guild (SPOG) Mike Solan told KOMO News.

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(July 2023) Crime in Seattle is increasing with downtown remaining most dangerous district
https://www.nbcrightnow.com/news/state/c...7698a.html

The Seattle Police Department is also dealing with a shortage of officers in the midst of increased crime since the COVID-19 pandemic. In 2022, Seattle saw 13 to 16 officers leave per month. As of May, it has dropped to nine per month.

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(March 2023) In Seattle, the cops keep leaving, while the backup never comes
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-new...ver-comes/

To put some numbers to it: Since 2020 the department has lost 515 officers and hired 190. That’s a net loss of 325. Last year, nearly 160 officers left and fewer than 70 were hired, despite Mayor Bruce Harrell’s much-publicized recruitment efforts and hiring bonus programs.

At the same time, the council and two mayors have talked for nearly three years about forming responder teams of social workers or mental health counselors to go to some calls in lieu of police.

Two council members, Alex Pedersen and Andrew Lewis, said during Tuesday’s hearing that they’ve noticed when meeting with police that morale is low. “There’s a real skepticism from front-line officers,” Lewis said about the city’s plans to set up alternative responder groups.

Right. That’s because back in the defund-the-police days, the council vowed to whack the police budget by 50% and use that money to fund alternative responders. So there’s a very human reason the cops aren’t really down with this program — it was proposed at their expense.

The council has since abandoned defund the police, and now wants to create the social worker teams in addition to, even alongside, the police.

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July 2023
https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-...r-staffing

Solan said the city needs to do more to attract and retain great officers after losing an estimated 70 so far in 2023.

“Officers are burned out, they’re tired. They’ve been asked to do way too much and not enough resources to do that work,” Solan said.

The police union reports SPD has lost 600 officers in the past three years. They're pushing for a competitive labor contract to attract more police to the department.

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Seattle Crisis Response Team (alternative responders)
https://www.seattle.gov/police/about-us/...ponse-team

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Sep 2023 Crisis responders
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...calls.html

Seattle is testing a pilot program that will see some 911 calls answered by so-called 'crisis responders' instead of law enforcement officers.

Democratic Councilwoman Lisa Herbold announced Friday that the city has begun the hiring process for unarmed first responders who are mental health professionals.

Herbold said the 'dual dispatch' program will send mental health professionals to 911 calls that involve people in 'behavioral health crises.' The move comes as the city suffers from a homelessness crisis, with many mentally ill and drug addicted residents living in sprawling encampments prone to dangerous incidents.

She added that the first responders will have police backup available, but officers will 'only approach if needed.'

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(Feb 2023) Seattle to launch civilian-based 911 response team in 2023
https://kuow.org/stories/seattle-to-laun...am-in-2023

[...] “Essentially we triage an abundance of calls. So there’s a lot of options that are there,” Adams said. “Currently as far as responders, we only have the police. But that’s what the city’s working on, is creating those alternative response groups. So stay tuned.”

[...] 911 call-takers will have to ask different kinds of questions to determine when these new responders are appropriate.

[...] Lewis said Denver’s 911 center, for example, directly dispatches a team that includes a mental health clinician and a paramedic to low-risk incidents like intoxication, trespass, and welfare checks. He said petty crimes have decreased 34% in the area where the program was implemented.

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(July 2023) Crowd Obstructs Police Response on Broadway

Shortly before 1:30 a.m., Police responded to a report of a large crowd and vehicles driving recklessly at the intersection of Broadway and E Pike Street. Initial attempts to disband the crowd were met with resistance. Officers remained in the area to respond to life-safety events. Shortly before 4:00 a.m., officers heard gunfire and located two victims at the intersection of Broadway and E Pike Street. Police performed life-saving measures on both subjects until Seattle Fire Department personnel arrived.

https://youtu.be/W3jKnzqCn-E

(Sep 7, 2023 06:59 PM)Magical Realist Wrote: [ -> ]Always helpful to consider what the gun nuts think of various liberal urban centers of our nation. In this case, a Youtube organization called "Washington Gun Law":

https://www.youtube.com/c/WashingtonGunLaw

Just because you're a pansy who'd rather cower in your house or just lay down for the criminals doesn't mean everyone else is a nut.
You're just so use to a world where willful misinterpretation of the Constitution is the norm. Welcome to one where rights are finally starting to be upheld nationwide.

That must be more scary for you than the rampant crime.

Looking at Seattle's autonomous zone..

It's like the lunatics have taken over the asylum. I can see the point that with enough guns you could kill all of them and that would be the end of it .. but .. ???

Guns are a deterrent. Especially if you let the police walk around with them.

What is the housing problem in Seattle?


Seattle's housing crisis has gone from bad to worse. Over the next 20 years, we will simply not have enough housing for the number of people who need and want to live and/or work in Seattle. Right now, 40% of Seattle's residents are low-income – and our city is becoming too expensive for nearly half of our population.

(Sep 7, 2023 10:05 PM)C C Wrote: [ -> ][...] Police may be leaving as much due to the city's expensive housing...

(Sep 10, 2023 10:42 PM)RainbowUnicorn Wrote: [ -> ]What is the housing problem in Seattle?

Seattle's housing crisis has gone from bad to worse. Over the next 20 years, we will simply not have enough housing for the number of people who need and want to live and/or work in Seattle. Right now, 40% of Seattle's residents are low-income – and our city is becoming too expensive for nearly half of our population.

Yah, that is a key factor in both losing them and falling short on replacing them. To expand on it:

Seattle Losing Cops Not to 'Defund the Police' But to Rising Housing Costs
https://www.newsweek.com/seattle-losing-...ts-1703531

EXCERPT: "The issue when you live in a city like Seattle, or in Southern California, where the housing costs are so high, is that people tend to have to commute a long way for work in order to live in affordable housing," she said. "That, of course, impacts their quality of life."

"You've limited your pool of folks who are willing to do the work for that reason," she added.

Officers in the Seattle Metropolitan Area, who make $66,000 a year on average according to salary.com, are finding it increasingly expensive to live within city limits.

The average price for a one-bedroom apartment has risen to $2,190 in Seattle, while the median price of a single-family home within the city has skyrocketed to $1,127,500. Both prices represent an increase of more than 18% increase from the previous year, according to data from Redfin.

Officers in Seattle are struggling to maintain their quality of life as the cost of living rises exponentially. Best said this is making it harder for the Department to retain and recruit talent.

Today, the SPD is at its lowest staffing level since the 1970s, when Seattle had two-thirds of its current population.

Seattle Losing Cops to Rising Housing Costs
https://seattlemedium.com/seattle-losing...ing-costs/

There is constant talk on how to handle the points Newsweek discussed. SPD, for instance, has lowered the number of new officers it expects to hire this year from 125 to 98. Some incoming recruits are choosing to work in nearby, more affordable jurisdictions. Some may then feel that the high cost of living in Seattle may end up being the cause of higher crime rates.

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In other smaller towns/cities across the country, it's an inability to even provide enough pay and benefits for police that has caused departments to completely close down. That's actually been transpiring for decades, but the rate has arguably increased over the last three years.

With respect to the potential recruits being unwilling to go through the "long" training, maybe that could be due to the programs being extended with social instruction or more micromanagement of police behavior. Rather than the trope of Zoomer laziness (all generations seem to get labeled that with in their beginnings.)

Some small towns in America are disbanding police forces, citing hiring woes
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/am...t-all-bad/

EXCERPTS: As Goodhue Police Chief Josh Smith struggled this summer to fill vacancies in his small department, he warned the town’s City Council that unless pay and benefits improved, finding new officers would never happen.

When nothing changed, Smith quit. So did his few remaining officers, leading the Minnesota town of 1,300 residents to shutter its police force in late August.

America is in the midst of a police officer shortage that many in law enforcement blame on the twofold morale hit of 2020 — the coronavirus pandemic and criticism of police that boiled over with the murder of George Floyd by a police officer. From Minnesota to Maine, Ohio to Texas, small towns unable to fill jobs are eliminating their police departments and turning over police work to their county sheriff, a neighboring town or state police.

The trend isn’t altogether new.

At least 521 U.S. towns and cities with populations of 1,000 to 200,000 disbanded policing between 1972 and 2017, according to a peer-reviewed 2022 paper by Rice University Professor of Economics Richard T. Boylan.

In the past two years, at least 12 small towns have dissolved their departments.

[...] At the heart of the problem is the exodus from law enforcement. Officer resignations were up 47% last year compared to 2019 — the year before the pandemic and Floyd’s killing — and retirements are up 19%. That’s all according to a survey of nearly 200 police agencies by the Police Executive Research Forum, a Washington, DC.-based think tank.

Though the survey represents only agencies affiliated with PERF, a fraction of the more than 18,000 law enforcement agencies nationwide and is not representative of all departments, it’s one of the few efforts to examine police hiring and retention and compare it with the time before Floyd’s killing.

Compounding the exodus of veteran officers, young people are increasingly unwilling to go through the months of training necessary to become a police officer, said Chuck Wexler, executive director of the Police Executive Research Forum.

“Fewer people are applying to be police officers, and more officers are retiring or resigning at a tremendous rate,” Wexler said. “There’s a shortage of police officers across the country.”