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For whatever it might be worth, there are lots of rumors that a Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) Type 093 Shang class boat is apparently lost with all hands, in waters near Taiwan.

So far this is mostly people repeating what other people have said and there still isn't any confirmation from more credible sources. Given the nature of the event it would be unlikely that China would say anything. But we could expect rescue and recovery ships to swarm the area if a submarine loss really happened. The Taiwanese would be sure to notice.

So it should become obvious in coming hours whether it's true.

More rumors today about the loss of the Chinese nuclear sub. Reportedly it was 093 class nuclear attack submarine 093-417 with 55 aboard. All crew were lost. The rumors say that it became entangled in a Chinese anti-submarine net in the Yellow Sea, placed there to prevent US submarines from intruding into the area.

It's unclear what caused the crew's deaths, since nuclear subs can stay submerged for a long time. Chinese rescue crews should have been able to cut the boat free or rescue its crew with rescue submersibles. But there appears to have been some kind of catastrophic failure subsequent to the entanglement that either caused the boat to flood, or else filled it with toxic gases.

At least those are the rumors. While some news media are reporting it, as always it comes from "sources" which reportedly have "knowledge of the matter". So treat these stories as unconfirmed. They should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

The Chinese are denying the whole thing, which one would expect them to do, whatever the truth is.

Oct 9 - Did the Chinese submarine accident happen? (Radio Free Asia)
https://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/c...41959.html

EXCERPT: . . . Two days after the Daily Mail’s report, a Chinese-language media outlet based in Taiwan – UP Media – quoted anonymous sources in Beijing as saying that the real cause of the accident was “serious problems” of the Yu-3C torpedoes on the submarine.

The submarine was on a mission from Aug. 19 to 27 to conduct “underwater weapons tests" near Dalian Port in the Liaodong Peninsula, Liaoning province, UP Media said.

“However, not long after the mission began, a torpedo exploded in the launch tube,” it said, causing the crash that killed “all the people on board.”

The media outlet said an investigation was launched after the Central Military Commission determined that “the accident was directly caused by serious problems in the fire control design of the Yu-3C improved torpedo.”

Investigators are looking into allegations of “procurement fraud and corruption” involving not only officials in the submarine force but also at much higher levels, it said.

Defense Minister Li Shangfu, who has been missing from public view since late August, and Vice Admiral Wang Dazhong, commander of the PLAN North Sea Fleet, are believed to be involved, according to Shen Ming-Shih, Acting Deputy Chief Executive Officer at the Institute for National Defense and Security Research (INDSR) in Taiwan.

Shen said he understood from his sources that “Wang was sacked over the August submarine incident as it happened in the area within his command.”

“Li meanwhile is being investigated for responsibilities in the armament procurement, including for the submarine force, and personal graft,” he said.

Some other experts remain more cautious. “I'm taking a wait-and-see approach as several of the articles have now provided data that should be able to be verified,” Chris Carlson, a retired submariner and U.S. naval intelligence analyst, told RFA... (MORE - missing details)