Scivillage.com Casual Discussion Science Forum

Just finished watching this. Pretty scary!

More of for what it’s worth…

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/top-10-ge...youngblood

Doubt if you hear about this as much as food, but it is consumed, so so don’t think this report will deter anyone.

Vulnerability-wise, also contributing to this is a long tradition of artificial environments, antiseptic cleanliness, and hyper-paternal attitudes that have been over-protecting us from the filthiness of the real world. Both the immune systems and the gut microbiome of Westerners has been toppling in quality for decades -- maybe centuries.

Our distant ancestors could even eat rotten meat without ill effects. I saw an old documentary from the late '70s or early '80s of South American tribes-people eating two-week old monkey meat that was riddled with maggots. They loved it. Meanwhile, the surrounding film crew were throwing up and becoming ill just from the stench of it.

As children, we were irregularly unloaded on grandparents during certain weeks of summer. My brother and I were exposed to barnyard manure, chickens and eggs in the raw, larger animal livestock, a legion of allergens in the air -- the complete circus of pathogens and floating air substances available on a farm home, pastures, cropland, fringe woodlands, creeks, etc.

For some dwellers of the insulated concrete jungle, young adult promiscuous sex and drug dens might be their first exposure to Squalid Simon and Nasty Nicole. If lucky they might be homeless a few months, eating out of garbage containers, and sleeping in grossness. But it's belated contact -- who knows if finally catching up to a tiny portion of nature's bounty late in life does any good.

Rotten meat may have been a staple of paleo diet
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/meat...eanderthal

Why dirt is good - why kids need exposure to germs
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shot...e-to-germs

Bacteria evolves. Maybe we could clone a Neanderthal and see if their gut microbiomes could handle some of our current pathogens. 

Your septic system must be 50 feet from streams, springs, lakes, or reservoirs, and 100 feet from wells. I figure that we can roll the dice with wild animals, but a large dairy farm right next to a canal…not so much.

If improving the safety of our irrigation water allows us to eat more fresh fruits and vegetables, then so be it. Until then, I’ll avoid cantaloupe (rough surface and harder to clean), romaine, bagged or precut fruits and veggies.

Chickens are vaccinated in the UK. Maybe we could get Stryder or C2 to ship us some frozen birds.

We vaccinate our chickens? Mrs C2 also blank. Yes we do - poor wee things. We must have snuck that in quietly so the CLF didn't object.

Asthma, eczema and allergies weren't invented until after the 1960s. Difficult to prove because records don't seem to go back that far or don't appear on the internet even if they. I'm thinking lack of immunity to life is passed from mother to child so Nasty Nicole is already at a disadvantage if her mother has always been squeaky clean whereas Squalid Susan's daughter can eat trash with impunity.
Edit.. and sorry but no to the frozen chicken shipping idea.

We've been eating non-supermarket eggs for years. Straight from the hen's cloaca, as in only superficially cleaned off, if at all.

One of many items that the majority of today's insulated population who imitate bubble people lifestyle should stay away from. Salmonella and other food pathogens are indeed out to get them. Paranoia justified. Most probably couldn't even eat the food of their ancestors back in 1920 without a trip to the hospital afterward.

Similar to why I recommended 99.99% of people not emulate the guy below.

Why this doctor stays away from doctors
https://www.scivillage.com/thread-14449-...l#pid59085

It's something only those of us who have been doing such for most of our adult lives could pull off. The "not even a senior yet" gentleman or lady who misses their appointments every month -- regular physician, two or three specialists, physical therapy and visits to other treatment centers, and several bottles of prescription refills -- is most assuredly dialing Dr. Death sooner than expected if they slack off that commitment. Due to the dependency already long since established.

I might have invented or misremembered this - I think washing fruit was known to be washing some of the 'goodness' of the fruit off. I'm fairly sure this is true because my grandparents came from a coal mining area and it was regarded as exceptional that the fruit from their garden had to be washed to remove the soot.
Edit - as CC - washing chicken shit off eggs was a cosmetic thing - any obvious big lumps had to be removed - otherwise good to go.

You don’t have to wash fresh eggs, but you should cook them. You wouldn’t use fresh manure in your garden or at least you shouldn’t. Yeah, I’m not down with tainted water sprayed on the plants, but to each his own.

Bon Appetit.

(Aug 12, 2023 12:18 AM)Secular Sanity Wrote: [ -> ]You don’t have to wash fresh eggs, but you should cook them. You wouldn’t use fresh manure in your garden or at least you shouldn’t. Yeah, I’m not down with tainted water sprayed on the plants, but to each his own.

Bon Appetit.

I thought it went without saying that most of the peasants in the UK would be cooking eggs before eating. Washing hands and things like that maybe not so much. CC?

I even drink unfiltered tap water from the kitchen sink! And I eat unpeeled apples!

Facetious employment of personal habits aside, though:

If cooking eggs well remedies salmonella (no big deal) -- then why is just cooking the chicken meat (well) receiving a double standard in terms of concern or attention? Part in bold what I'm referring to below, not the ensuing springboard for leaping into "big corporation" conspiracies land. (BTW, I stopped eating store-bought "leafy green stuff" and started microwaving other fresh vegetables several years ago. The rest of the clan prefers the risk-taking, though, like drinking oodles of pop and other flavored drinks. I'll stick with tasteless water.)

Poisoned: the dirty truth about your food, a riddle yet to be solved
https://medium.com/@jeremiahgachunga01/p...2788ff2fb2

EXCERPT: To participate in the salmonella outbreak, in which the chances of getting it are much higher than those of E. coli O157, as stated by one of the lab analysts who is a part of the game and is involved in the survey, it is easier to get it on chicken parts purchased in American markets. The control of unhealthy food began way back in the advance of the American markets, and that would indulge a person who would inspect the food that was being transported to the market that it was being sold in, and this has been applied in the chicken selling sector, where they have had a person inspecting chicken before they are put in the market, so where is the flaw?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Netflix Doc ‘Poisoned’ Reveals How Shockingly Dirty Your Food Is
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/t...234798703/

EXCERPTS: So you’re hungry, and you want to eat something healthy. Maybe a salad. Whoops. Romaine lettuce and spinach are prolific carriers of foodborne pathogens [...] OK, so maybe a chicken sandwich. Not so fast: It remains industry practice to sell raw chicken infected by salmonella. How about a wholesome peanut butter sandwich? Well, peanuts, too, have a bad salmonella history.

Such is the hazard of watching Poisoned: The Dirty Truth About Your Food, a sobering new Netflix documentary that makes eternal fasting seem like a really good option. Fastidious, even-keeled and concerning, it’s an alarming reminder to watch what you eat, at least if you want to stick around and stay healthy. [...] It’s the story of a broken system that often places profit over public health and safety.

[...] The film speaks truth to power, quite literally when Soechtig puts corporate executives and government regulators on camera to tap-dance their way around pointed questions and carefully recorded data. ... At the heart of Poisoned is an age-old conflict between public health and safety and corporate greed. Food lobbyists throw money around freely and hold powerful sway over the politicians who might bring about regulatory change.

[...] Netflix shows its share of quick-and-dirty docs, overheated clip jobs that serve sensationalist ends. Sometimes, however, the streamer brings to light thoughtful and carefully crafted works that want you to think. Poisoned lands firmly in the latter category. It benefits from an appropriately pensive but dramatic score, composed by Justin Melland, and evocative cinematography from Rod Hassler. One oddly lyrical sequence, shot at a Perdue chicken hatchery, shows newly hatched chicks as they’re sifted and sorted en route to the farm. It’s almost enough to make you swear off meat – for a moment, anyway. As Poisoned reminds us, there’s a fair amount of cognitive dissonance involved in what and how we eat. The food industry knows how much we’re willing to overlook and forget for the sake of ease and expedience.